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AIBU?

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Original poster

To not block this work WhatsApp?

63 replies

bingbangbongding · 27/09/2023 15:30

Seeking a little assistance/honest feedback on how to deal with a situation at work.

A person on a team i manage has posted in the Teams chat ‘please can we not have WhatsApp groups outside this chat unless you want me to feel left out and not part of the team’

This person does not have the ability to access WhatsApp (by choice they do not have a smartphone) and the WhatsApp group was set up to facilitate meeting offsite (and out of network) with a team member we hadn’t met in person before. The person complaining didn’t come on this trip. The group wasn’t set up by me and I can’t delete it.

The WhatsApp group has not been used since the trip apart from once, when a person was going to be late and was away from their computer (which to be honest, I find reasonable).

One person has replied before I managed to and they’ve explained why the group was set up and they’ve said they will stop using it.

I replied and said I agreed with the intent of the group and that it hadn’t really been used.

I also added that I wasn’t going to agree enforcing the team to stop using it as it was a private group. I said if there were any team messages that had to go to all I would of course text her separately meaning she won’t miss out on anything.

I reiterated that there were no personal messages in the chat (there really wasn’t)

She has replied in the Teams chat with further discontent and now said she’s upset.
I will send a private message and ask to chat but I suspect she won’t be satisfied.

What do you advise?

OP posts:
SuperfluousToRequirements · 27/09/2023 15:45

I though WhatsApp was now available for use on other phones/computers?

AnSolas · 27/09/2023 15:47

Get HR involved asap

This is the opening of a bullying type claim and you (the company) need to manage it as if you are giving evidence in a constructive dismissal case.

She may be being bullied or ignored by fellow employees but you have no ability to prevent employees having multiple groups for "non-work" communications.

You need to understand your social media and your data protection policy for third party apps which the company can't access or control.

IMO If you are going to allow whatsapp groups for company business they need to be setup on company tec. And there has to be a written policy on what happens to communication of workflow if somebody is not on the app.

By her communicating on teams she is creating a paper trail so its best to make sure that your work policies are up to date and that everybody has at least had some kind of training on what is and is not acceptable when work and social communications overlap.

TheNameIsDickDarlington · 27/09/2023 15:47

I'd tell her it's not all about her and if she feels that left out by not having WhatsApp she can get a smart phone and you'd be happy to add her.

There must be loads of chats she's not a part of by not having WhatsApp (I'm in 2 work chats, parents chats for kids schools, a hobby group chat, volunteering group chat and those are just the ones that aren't purely social or run by friends) but that's her choice not to have it others don't need to stop using it as she feels left out.

pastaandpesto · 27/09/2023 15:50

Personally I think using WhatsApp for work is blurring a line and is unprofessional, for exactly the reasons stated by this person. Is there a reason why you can't use Teams chat instead?

EnterFunnyNameHere · 27/09/2023 15:51

Tell her to get whatsapp desktop and add her there - then she's not being missed out and the group can continue as is <<shrugs>>

Edit - or replace it with a Teams chat if that's in use at your workplace. People can choose to get that on their phone if they wish.

AnSolas · 27/09/2023 15:51

SuperfluousToRequirements · 27/09/2023 15:45

I though WhatsApp was now available for use on other phones/computers?

The employee has opted out of having an intetnet connection on her phone.

There may be a very good reason why she is not willing to have her personal phone number linked on a searchable database.

The OP has to manage the situation as is and unless the employee is using company tec the OP can not instruct the employee to join the app.

Original poster
bingbangbongding · 27/09/2023 16:00

pastaandpesto · 27/09/2023 15:50

Personally I think using WhatsApp for work is blurring a line and is unprofessional, for exactly the reasons stated by this person. Is there a reason why you can't use Teams chat instead?

We don't have work phones and Teams is locked down by our org so that it can't be used on personal phones.

We are allowed to use Slack Messenger on our personal phones for work stuff but she doesn't have a smart phone so she can't get that anyway.

We can't have WhatsApp on our desktop as the work computer doesn't allow it.

So there isn't a one size fits all solution, so the guy who created the group did what he thought worked best.

OP posts:
Original poster
bingbangbongding · 27/09/2023 16:03

AnSolas · 27/09/2023 15:47

Get HR involved asap

This is the opening of a bullying type claim and you (the company) need to manage it as if you are giving evidence in a constructive dismissal case.

She may be being bullied or ignored by fellow employees but you have no ability to prevent employees having multiple groups for "non-work" communications.

You need to understand your social media and your data protection policy for third party apps which the company can't access or control.

IMO If you are going to allow whatsapp groups for company business they need to be setup on company tec. And there has to be a written policy on what happens to communication of workflow if somebody is not on the app.

By her communicating on teams she is creating a paper trail so its best to make sure that your work policies are up to date and that everybody has at least had some kind of training on what is and is not acceptable when work and social communications overlap.

See this is what I'm dreading. She was moved to our team from another as she wasn't clicking with them.

She's told us they were a 'nightmare' and it was verging on bullying.

I'm trying to accommodate her needs but she has replied with such emotive language it is hard.

It's not 'just to remind you I'm not on WhatsApp so could you remember to keep me in the loop' it's 'don't use it if you don't want me to feel left out and upset'

OP posts:
Ffsmakeitstop · 27/09/2023 16:06

We have a work WhatsApp set up especially for work related info. I don't have a smartphone because honestly I don't need one. I just accept that if there is anything urgent someone will text me otherwise I find out what's going on when I'm actually at work. Her choice same as it is mine.

Whataretheodds · 27/09/2023 16:08

Have you had a face to face (or teams video call) to understand what her underlying concerns are?

If, as you say, the only WhatsApp group that's been set up has not been used for some time (apart from the "I'll be late" message) then where is she getting the impression that there are conversations she's missing out on?

Is it possible that her peers/your other reportees have other WhatsApp chats they're using? Is she being left out in other ways?

openallday · 27/09/2023 16:38

Gosh. What a painful person

Who doesn't have whatsapp?

Even my Granny is on it

Doesn't she have a tablet at home?

Can you still do group text chats?

AnSolas · 27/09/2023 16:38

bingbangbongding · 27/09/2023 16:03

See this is what I'm dreading. She was moved to our team from another as she wasn't clicking with them.

She's told us they were a 'nightmare' and it was verging on bullying.

I'm trying to accommodate her needs but she has replied with such emotive language it is hard.

It's not 'just to remind you I'm not on WhatsApp so could you remember to keep me in the loop' it's 'don't use it if you don't want me to feel left out and upset'

Show quote history

I would go down the group training route as everybody is getting the same information on using and there is no opening to argue using emotional language or claim bias.

You can send an email to all explaining that you are availabe if anybody has a specific issue which was not covered by the training.

along with the training on policy you could also add in some professional communications skills (she should have contacted you as manager to discuss the group not sent an instruction to the whole team) and how not to exclude employees from work processes and how its not a friendship group either etc etc.

If you know the manager/senior members of the other team i would have a catch up chat and mention your new team member and see what follows.

it may be a good idea to contact the person who originally set up the group directly and ask that it be removed as
a) it has done the task and is nolonger needed (in writing)
b) you need to check the data policy for third party apps and there will be training provided to all soon (optional for written message)

MidnightOnceMore · 27/09/2023 16:42

Is WhatsApp an accepted work communication tool? If not then YABU. My work asks all work comms to be in the work systems, WhatsApp is not allowed.

NumberTheory · 27/09/2023 17:04

If your workplace don’t allow you to put WhatsApp on your desktops, it doesn’t sound like a suitable medium for work conversations (though it also doesn’t sound like you’ve really been using it for that except the once).

I think you have two issues and you need to tackle both of them -

  1. Communication tools. If the company isn’t requiring/supplying smartphones you need to ensure your communications tools don’t rely on them. Forwarding messages is not the same as her being involved in the conversation and is pretty liable to error. As someone else said - she’s setting up the groundwork for an harassment claim (even if that’s not her conscious intent). If you don’t address it, she may have a point.

  2. Her communication style with the team. Her tone and language was inappropriate and I think (especially given her history) you need to be quite clear about that. Raise it at your next supervision meeting - that her tone was unprofessional and so inappropriate. That reminding people she isn’t on What’s App is reasonable, or coming to you as her manager, but the emotional blackmail angle was not. Tell her you take her concerns on board about the possibility of being left out, but so far she hasn’t been left out of any relevant work conversations (I think - I didn’t entirely understand the bit about the colleague coming in late, but it sounded like that was an announcement that was forwarded on to her, not a conversation) and you’re looking into the tools you use to communicate as a team to make sure it won’t become an issue (see point 1.).

Original poster
bingbangbongding · 27/09/2023 17:09

I doubt any WhatsApp groups other than this have been set up. The team is almost brand new and we don't live near each other or socialise together.

OP posts:
Ormally · 27/09/2023 17:10

If the app is not provided by the company (or the tech it is used on), it's unprofessional to expect that people will be able to access it.

I would not blur business with WhatsApp use and I have very good reasons why not, that I would only share at work if unavoidable.

JudgeRudy · 27/09/2023 17:13

I don't have a TV. Shall I complain if work colleagues start talking about what they watched last night? I'd close the current group and say that colleagues are of course at liberty to contact each other for out of work socialising by any means they chose.

pastaandpesto · 27/09/2023 17:15

bingbangbongding · 27/09/2023 16:00

We don't have work phones and Teams is locked down by our org so that it can't be used on personal phones.

We are allowed to use Slack Messenger on our personal phones for work stuff but she doesn't have a smart phone so she can't get that anyway.

We can't have WhatsApp on our desktop as the work computer doesn't allow it.

So there isn't a one size fits all solution, so the guy who created the group did what he thought worked best.

Show quote history

Sounds like laziness on behalf of your IT Team. We are cyber essentials plus accredited and take data security pretty seriously but we are able to use Teams on our personal devices because our systems admins guys put work into making it secure. Likewise DH works for a massive international company which locks everything down but he is still able to use Teams on his own device.

I agree with the PP who said that if instant group messaging is a requirement for you to perform your roles, the onus is on the company to find a solution that is accessible for everyone. For me, WhatsApp is personal - no way would I routinely use it for work.

nutellacrepe · 27/09/2023 17:21

pastaandpesto · 27/09/2023 15:50

Personally I think using WhatsApp for work is blurring a line and is unprofessional, for exactly the reasons stated by this person. Is there a reason why you can't use Teams chat instead?

Agreed! I don't do work WhatsApp (unless it's on a work phone with a work number).

44PumpLane · 27/09/2023 17:21

You can download WhatsApp chats to a readable doc.....download the WhatsApp chat and send it to her via email to show her that the WhatsApp chat has simply been used to coordinate an event she didn't attend and an "I'm sorry I'm late" message so she has proof that it's literally that boring.

Ask her to suggest another type of group communication tool that work could employ that she would be able to access on her non smart phone. Unfortunately the issue is that if you choose to opt out of smart tech then you may miss out on things.

It's perfectly reasonable for work colleagues to be able to contact each other out of hours if they have agreed to it.

I have a work WhatsApp with my team where we confirm if anyone is going to be in the office on a given day. It's not heavily used but means we can sometimes plan to be in together as it's more pleasant. Usually we just plan it week to week when we are in but if someone has been away they might message to ask when everyone is in this week.

ETA we also have Teams on our phones but all agree WhatsApp is more convenient.

dcsp · 27/09/2023 17:21

bingbangbongding · 27/09/2023 16:00

We don't have work phones and Teams is locked down by our org so that it can't be used on personal phones.

We are allowed to use Slack Messenger on our personal phones for work stuff but she doesn't have a smart phone so she can't get that anyway.

We can't have WhatsApp on our desktop as the work computer doesn't allow it.

So there isn't a one size fits all solution, so the guy who created the group did what he thought worked best.

Show quote history

If you used Slack, then presumably everyone (including her) could access it on their computer, and those who wanted to could use it on their phones?

Also, if it's an approved method of communication, it ensures you're not breaching any work rules by using a non-work communication method to discuss work things.

That sounds like the solution.

Original poster
bingbangbongding · 27/09/2023 17:22

openallday · 27/09/2023 16:38

Gosh. What a painful person

Who doesn't have whatsapp?

Even my Granny is on it

Doesn't she have a tablet at home?

Can you still do group text chats?

She said she feels bad about the rare earth minerals smart phones use. Which is fine, but we work in tech and our equipment is full of them.

OP posts:
Original poster
bingbangbongding · 27/09/2023 17:25

NumberTheory · 27/09/2023 17:04

If your workplace don’t allow you to put WhatsApp on your desktops, it doesn’t sound like a suitable medium for work conversations (though it also doesn’t sound like you’ve really been using it for that except the once).

I think you have two issues and you need to tackle both of them -

  1. Communication tools. If the company isn’t requiring/supplying smartphones you need to ensure your communications tools don’t rely on them. Forwarding messages is not the same as her being involved in the conversation and is pretty liable to error. As someone else said - she’s setting up the groundwork for an harassment claim (even if that’s not her conscious intent). If you don’t address it, she may have a point.

  2. Her communication style with the team. Her tone and language was inappropriate and I think (especially given her history) you need to be quite clear about that. Raise it at your next supervision meeting - that her tone was unprofessional and so inappropriate. That reminding people she isn’t on What’s App is reasonable, or coming to you as her manager, but the emotional blackmail angle was not. Tell her you take her concerns on board about the possibility of being left out, but so far she hasn’t been left out of any relevant work conversations (I think - I didn’t entirely understand the bit about the colleague coming in late, but it sounded like that was an announcement that was forwarded on to her, not a conversation) and you’re looking into the tools you use to communicate as a team to make sure it won’t become an issue (see point 1.).

Yes, I agree with all of this.

I'm going to reread policy on comms tools this evening. Which is sad because WhatsApp had been used entirely professionally.

And I will speak to her about her communication style. I'm glad you mentioned emotional manipulation because that's how I felt about it. She talks about falling out with people (her sister, her friends, her last team) and I just think I should have been smarter having been aware of this.

I really don't want this turning into a grievance etc.

OP posts:
Smellslikesummer · 27/09/2023 17:25

Ask the admin to delete the existing whatsapp group. Tell everybody that they are obviously free to message eachother privately by any means they want but that there won’t be an official work whatsapp.
Then if some colleagues want to communicate via whatsapp when they don’t have access to Teams, stuck during commute for ex, they can. Not something another colleague could complain about, is it?

Dacadactyl · 27/09/2023 17:27

God, some people are just so bloody AWKWARD!

It's a wonder this fruitloop gets through daily life.