Two detentions for the same thing

Nicomumof2 · 2023-09-27T14:09:19+00:00

My DS(11) has recently started secondary school. Before he started we had numerous meetings with the school as he’s ASD & ADHD and it’s a mainstream school, so the meetings were to put some measures in place (I.e pass if he needs to take 5mins out of class). I have a number of health issues which resulted in me being taken to hospital Wednesday morning last week before the kids went to school. That day he forgot his PE kit and was given detention for it that lunch time. (He states he wasn’t even given the chance to explain). He come home Monday and has said his tutor is giving him a detention for the same thing, apparently the PE teacher emailed his form tutor to give him another one for the same reason! I have emailed but had no response, I understand the need for discipline (trust me I do) but I feel it’s wrong to punish a child twice for the same thing. If I got in trouble at work I wouldn’t get one warning of HR then one off my manager for example for the same thing. Am I being unreasonable to ask for a meeting to discuss this and refuse my son to do an extra detention?

Wolvesart · 27/09/2023 15:14

That’s terrible, they shouldn’t give a detention once they hear the explanation.

I also think that a detention for anyone forgetting PE kit once is wrong. It’s the sort of thing only a repeat offender - say three times or something - might get a short lunchtime detention for. Sounds like ott discipline

Bluevelvetsofa · 27/09/2023 15:38

I don’t think you’re unreasonable at all and if you aren’t getting an email response I’d insist, politely, on a meeting.

I think many students, ND or not, would struggle with mum suddenly going to hospital. It’s not necessary, surely, to punish twice for the same thing.

TeenDivided · 27/09/2023 15:44

Dear Tutor,

DS seems to be under the impression that you have given him a detention this Monday for missing his PE kit last Wednesday, even though he already did detention for it? Surely that can't be right?

As a way of explanation as you know he has ASD/ADHD and I had to go to hospital before school on Wednesday so he would have had his worries about that as well as his disability

Kind regards

Singleandproud · 27/09/2023 15:50

Did he do the original detention or was the second one for not turning up to the first one. Or was he offered spare kit that he refused - that might get two detentions too.

It's highly likely that the teacher didn't know him or that he is autistic, it's still early in the term and teachers won't know all of their new students yet, even if they've read his one page profile (and it might not even be on the system yet) it's likely that the teacher just said that everyone who forgot their kit had a sanction, no excuses.

When contacting the school you need to go in higher than form teacher and PE teacher but CC them in, but address the email to his head of year/ community and the Sendco. Explaining the situation and bringing to attention his Send and that he is a young carer (if that applies for your health condition)

MissJoGrant · 27/09/2023 15:51

I would check that both detentions were indeed for the same thing. They might not be.

Everydayimhuffling · 27/09/2023 15:53

Email the tutor and remind them/explain the situation. The PE teacher should know (I'm a teacher) as they have the details of all SEN in the class for any given class.

IsItThough · 27/09/2023 17:46

He shouldn't have been punished even once.

Definitely speak to them.

32quietlyshocked · 27/09/2023 17:52

Based on my experience there is a good chance teachers will not have read or remembered the SEN information. If DS's SEN wasn't much more visible this year than last, I would have emailed every teacher individually to tell them.

Nodeepdiving · 27/09/2023 17:55

Wolvesart · 27/09/2023 15:14

That’s terrible, they shouldn’t give a detention once they hear the explanation.

I also think that a detention for anyone forgetting PE kit once is wrong. It’s the sort of thing only a repeat offender - say three times or something - might get a short lunchtime detention for. Sounds like ott discipline

Waiting till the third time adds a whole layer of admin and faff, as the teacher would have to track the number of times and then for every child who doesn't have their kit check how often they've forgotten their kit previously. It also means the kids are more likely to argue about it. It sounds minor, but it would be such an unnecessary ball ache. As it stands it's a simple no kit = detention.

OP, I totally agree that your son shouldn't be getting two detentions for the same thing (in fact, he shouldn't be getting one at all on this occasion). I wouldn't ask for a meeting though, that seems a bit heavy handed and time consuming. Just call the school reception and ask if the form teacher can call you. I think you might find there's a bit more to it than your son being punished twice for the same thing. You could also use the opportunity to ask if your son's teachers could be reminded of his home situation and be considerate of it.

Wolvesart · 27/09/2023 18:35

Nodeepdiving · 27/09/2023 17:55

Waiting till the third time adds a whole layer of admin and faff, as the teacher would have to track the number of times and then for every child who doesn't have their kit check how often they've forgotten their kit previously. It also means the kids are more likely to argue about it. It sounds minor, but it would be such an unnecessary ball ache. As it stands it's a simple no kit = detention.

OP, I totally agree that your son shouldn't be getting two detentions for the same thing (in fact, he shouldn't be getting one at all on this occasion). I wouldn't ask for a meeting though, that seems a bit heavy handed and time consuming. Just call the school reception and ask if the form teacher can call you. I think you might find there's a bit more to it than your son being punished twice for the same thing. You could also use the opportunity to ask if your son's teachers could be reminded of his home situation and be considerate of it.

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Thing is that it’s not that big of a deal unless it’s repeat offence. Honestly, teachers should be trusted to judge when to make a sanction and probably-in general- don’t want a ‘one strike and it’s detention’ approach

IsItThough · 27/09/2023 18:48

Nodeepdiving · 27/09/2023 17:55

Waiting till the third time adds a whole layer of admin and faff, as the teacher would have to track the number of times and then for every child who doesn't have their kit check how often they've forgotten their kit previously. It also means the kids are more likely to argue about it. It sounds minor, but it would be such an unnecessary ball ache. As it stands it's a simple no kit = detention.

OP, I totally agree that your son shouldn't be getting two detentions for the same thing (in fact, he shouldn't be getting one at all on this occasion). I wouldn't ask for a meeting though, that seems a bit heavy handed and time consuming. Just call the school reception and ask if the form teacher can call you. I think you might find there's a bit more to it than your son being punished twice for the same thing. You could also use the opportunity to ask if your son's teachers could be reminded of his home situation and be considerate of it.

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Oh its too much admin to be fair to our young people. I despair

Nodeepdiving · 27/09/2023 20:28

Have you ever worked as a teacher? The list of "small" things really adds up and is one of the many reasons teacher workload is nuts. I'll give you an example: I had a year 11 lesson where the vast majority of pupils hadn't done their homework. I had previously agreed that they would have to do a departmental detention with my Head of Department if they yet again failed to do homework. So, I now have to add 9 detentions to our online system, email my HoD to inform her, make sure the pupils record their detention. Then one pupil has a good reason for not doing the homework so their detention needs to be deleted off the system and HoD informed. In the same lesson, two pupils seriously misbehave, so this needs to be written up on paper and urgently passed to senior leadership (this involves emailing someone to send a runner over). Then at lunch I am hosting a detention for a pupil who hadn't turned up to one previously. There was another who hadn't, but they're not in today, so I need to set a reminder to get them to do it when I next see them. Then my HoD emails to ask what hwk the kids missed, so I email that over. Then another pupil rocks up at the staffroom with a convoluted story about why they didn't do the homework so that now needs to be taken into consideration. That was one lesson. I really don't think it's teachers being precious at the expense of children's best interest. And while you might not like the idea of a one strike policy, there's nothing unfair about it. Also, IME, giving pupils another chance, e.g. when they've not done their homework, rarely means they will actually do it, so then I've got extra admin and I'm still losing my own break/ lunch supervising detentions.

Nodeepdiving · 27/09/2023 20:30

See my reply to another poster: the teacher/ PE department have probably learned the hard way that a one strike system is the most effective. I do it with homework, because the additional admin from giving second chances very rarely if ever resulted in the homework being handed in after all.

Singleandproud · 27/09/2023 21:24

Alternatively it could be coming from higher up, before leaving teaching my school got a new Head and he encouraged teachers to effectively 'grass' on each other if they were not keeping to the new very strict behaviour policy. There was no leeway for individual teachers to make exceptions dependent on circumnstances without getting in trouble themselves. Parents had to ring in and make arrangements with the Sendco separately each time, which isn't convenient for those parents that were at work with no access to their phone to find out their child with Send had received a detention.

ZolaBudd · 27/09/2023 21:24

Just phoned the school for God sake

Nodeepdiving · 27/09/2023 22:38

Singleandproud · 27/09/2023 21:24

Alternatively it could be coming from higher up, before leaving teaching my school got a new Head and he encouraged teachers to effectively 'grass' on each other if they were not keeping to the new very strict behaviour policy. There was no leeway for individual teachers to make exceptions dependent on circumnstances without getting in trouble themselves. Parents had to ring in and make arrangements with the Sendco separately each time, which isn't convenient for those parents that were at work with no access to their phone to find out their child with Send had received a detention.

Crikey! Is that why you left teaching? That sounds horrendous, for the teachers and the kids in equal measure.