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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To just want a worksheet homework

120 replies

OnlyFoolsnMothers · 26/09/2023 16:38

I’m so over the creative homework’s, it’s homework for adults. My 6yr olds homework this week was to create a song about the fire on London! No way can she do that- it’s like pulling teeth- so I spent my evening after work thinking of words to rhyme with fire.
The week before was to design a book cover.

Can we not just go back to some lines of spelling, a worksheet of sums…please.
Anyone else have this/ feel like this?

OP posts:
outerlope · 26/09/2023 19:03

Ex primary teacher here.

I will preface this by saying that I would prefer no homework except for reading but the homework you are referring to is also not my favourite (for different reasons perhaps), especially when, like pp have said, you have to give nine different options. It seemed to be particularly fashionable in international schools but seems to be increasingly common over here too.

One school I worked for in particular absolutely lived and breathed this open ended choice-based work. Every assessment for every subject was basically "demonstrate everything you've learned about x in any way you want" and then you'd spend hours and hours watching videos of children teaching a fake lesson about fractions to their teddy bears or explaining their lego model of a Victorian workhouse or performing an interpretive dance about life in Tudor times. While it sounds great in theory, marking it was so time-consuming and inconsistent.

I do think there's value in these extremely open ended activities but I don't think it works well as homework nor do I think it should be assessed.

One thing I would say to "my child isn't capable of doing this activity" is how low is your bar and can you lower it further and then lower it again? When you hear "song" you think rhyme, but I would be extremely surprised if your six year old's teacher is expecting anything even remotely rhyming. If your DS is capable of something resembling:

"Fire
So hot
Burning"

then they can do the homework. How well they do it is based on their ability. And that's what the teacher wants to see. There is nothing worse than marking 30 lots of homework clearly done by adults. There is no need to help them find rhyming words. If they are capable of just writing a few words somewhat related to fire, then arguably they have created a song. You can say anything in a song-song voice and it's a song. If they are capable of drawing a picture and copying down the title of a book, then they have created a book cover.

I once had a parent make a complaint about a topic where year 5 students had to draw a (poster) advertisement for a chocolate bar they had designed. The parent argued that it was way beyond a year 5's capabilities and that people work in marketing for years to learn those skills. As we spoke, it was clear that what he meant was that doing it WELL (from an adult perspective) is beyond the capabilities of a year 5 student.

Nobody is expecting it to be adult-level good. Nobody is expecting a 5 year old to write a top 40 hit. But within the craziness of the tic-tac-toe grid of open-ended homework options, in my opinion, one of the benefits the only benefit was that the children who were used to this approach became a lot more confident with giving literally anything a go and not worrying about whether it was good enough. I would argued that they tended to be a lot more confident in their own ideas and were more able to work independently. If they're capable of doing it to any level at all, they are capable of doing it. They end product naturally gets better as they progress.

So in summary, while I do agree with you, it's likely a school-wide homework policy and so I personally would just take the good out of it. Once they're used to it, and have the confidence to just give things a go, you don't have crying over addition sums that they can't do or endless spelling practice.

If at first your child needs help to do it independently, I would suggest prompts like this:

"Let's think about some words to describe fire. What is fire like?"
"Can you tell me about the fire of London?"
"Let's write down the words you're thinking of"
"Let's pick our favourite of these words and put them together"

I would not suggest help like this:

"Dire rhymes with fire. Dire means really bad. Yes it was really bad. Okay maybe we could say "everything was really dire". What do you think?"

When you help, do it with the aim of getting them to a point where they are confident enough to attempt things independently, no matter how bad what they come up with is. Don't help them with the idea of getting a good end product. Once they are at that point, as they start getting older, you can always start encouraging them to check, edit, improve etc. if you feel it's appropriate. But for now, the best help you can give them is to teach them how to sit down to a task like "write a song" and come up with anything at all.

AngelinaFibres · 26/09/2023 19:05

ConnieTucker · 26/09/2023 18:47

Unhelpful.

hilarious though. Made me laugh.

I did the Gof L at least 10 times in my teaching career. Have a little Google.

OldChinaJug · 26/09/2023 19:12

2reefsin30knots · 26/09/2023 16:49

Just don't do it. Do the reading and spellings- and maths if they send any. Bin the other bullshit off.

I am a primary school teacher.

Same.

Also a primary school teacher.

These are often initiatives by someone whose job is to increase parental engagement or something. Someone will have sounded really excited in a staff meeting when they told everyone about it.

Teachers will have wandered back to class eye rolling both at having to come up with exciting and interesting creative homework that require high levels of parental involvement knowing it mostly won't be completed and certainly won't be done by the children they are targetting for exactly the same reason an interesting way of engaging parents was deemed necessary in the first place..

They don't really expect it to be completed but it ticks a box on their performance nanagement. It's just part of the game 🤷🏻‍♀️

Please don't let your child become upset by it.

Reading, spellings and times tables are the only homework needed in primary.

OldChinaJug · 26/09/2023 19:21

I will also add that, as a primary teacher, I didn't enforce my children's homework at primary school.

We read every night, did times tables, practiced spellings but that was all.

I didn't even necessarily read with them. I just let them fill the book in and signed it the requisite number of times in the week.

My children read to me and i read with them. I didn't need to prove it to someone else but I also knew the teachers would be monitored on how often their class read and challenged on how they were improving it.

Like I said, it's just playing the game.

Callyem · 26/09/2023 19:24

Teachers hate homework! Its another one of those things where there is no 'one size fits all' approach. You'll please some and annoy others.

TheYearOfSmallThings · 26/09/2023 19:29

Totally agree. I'll be making a model of the fecking acropolis this weekend.

lanthanum · 26/09/2023 19:32

Tiredforfive45 · 26/09/2023 17:22

Teacher here.

I once worked in a school where each teacher had to provide NINE different options for their class each week, covering different subject areas. The children could choose as many to complete as they wanted.

Thinking up the activities was hell.
Marking it was hell. Especially when it was clear the parents had done it.

I loved it when kids didn’t do it as it meant less marking.

HUGE waste of time. Thankfully it turned most parents off homework so effectively that we scrapped it completely the following year!

DD's school had a similar thing, but it was for the whole term - there was something relating to every curriculum area. It was entirely optional. Nothing was "marked"; there was a homework celebration where their models/photos/writing/drawing were displayed, those who'd learned a poem or a bit of music did that, and the teachers drew attention to a few things. It meant that those parents who wanted homework had plenty, but there were always some 5 minute options so that it wasn't hard to make sure your child had done something. And yes, sometimes it was obvious they'd had a lot of help.

Coolblur · 26/09/2023 19:36

I think the problem is the amount of parental input required, particularly in the younger half of primary school. It's fine to say it's about teaching them to motivate themselves to learn and study independently, but at that age they're too young to do that.
I always felt that it was unfair on those whose parents had very busy lives and couldn't dedicate the time to homework that was required. So I don't agree that it's more inclusive, particularly for younger children.

When he was younger I'm pretty sure DS thought homework was optional if you were too busy doing other things because I couldn't help him when I was working. We tried, but rarely completed it all. He's learning to self motivate now he's older and capable of doing so as I do believe that's an important skill that he'll need when studying for exams, at uni, doing professional training or whatever he chooses.

Onelifeonly · 26/09/2023 19:41

We no longer give homework where I teach as research showed it had no impact. However my kids did have it throughout primary. One just couldn't engage with the creative stuff, the other loved it. I still ended up getting involved as the latter would have ambitious ideas that required adult help to realise - usually involved a lot of craft and modelling.

WillowCraft · 26/09/2023 19:56

Coolblur · 26/09/2023 19:36

I think the problem is the amount of parental input required, particularly in the younger half of primary school. It's fine to say it's about teaching them to motivate themselves to learn and study independently, but at that age they're too young to do that.
I always felt that it was unfair on those whose parents had very busy lives and couldn't dedicate the time to homework that was required. So I don't agree that it's more inclusive, particularly for younger children.

When he was younger I'm pretty sure DS thought homework was optional if you were too busy doing other things because I couldn't help him when I was working. We tried, but rarely completed it all. He's learning to self motivate now he's older and capable of doing so as I do believe that's an important skill that he'll need when studying for exams, at uni, doing professional training or whatever he chooses.

I kind of disagree with this. The homework should be of a level that the child can do it independently. My child is in week 4 of reception and all I have been doing is clearing a space at the table, handing her a pencil and letting her get on with it. It isn't necessarily all right but she's able to do the worksheets with no input from me. She's never done any writing before and only what phonics was covered at nursery, so she's not ahead of her peers either. I think if a parent's help is needed it's either the wrong level for the child or the parent is micro managing to try and get it done better than the child can manage.
It's only 15 minutes once a week in reception so it shouldn't be an issue if parents are working either - presumably there's 15 minutes spare at some point during the week

Wilkolampshade · 26/09/2023 20:05

There was a fire.
It was hot.
People died.
Quite a lot.

OnlyFoolsnMothers · 26/09/2023 20:06

Bloody love the song suggestions thank you you creative bunch!

OP posts:
OnlyFoolsnMothers · 26/09/2023 20:11

I personally think open ended creative home works are fine for holidays but in the week they are just pointless and stressful.
interesting how many teachers advocate not doing it. I really don’t want to teach my children that homework is optional, as I think young kids see things very black and white- school isn’t optional. I’ve also heard of children being asked for homework projects they haven’t done, which I think must be really daunting as a child when it’s down to the parents.

OP posts:
listsandbudgets · 26/09/2023 20:15

Long ago there was a fire
Its results were really dire
Buildings burnt and people died
The rest of them just sat and cried
It sparked off in Pudding lane
And all of London got set aflame
Long ago there was a fire
Its results were sad and dire

Does that help Grin

GrandTheftWalrus · 26/09/2023 20:17

Oh and her school is on strike for 3 days so on top of normal homework is classwork "suggestions" which won't be done either

underneaththeash · 26/09/2023 20:18

TeenLifeMum · 26/09/2023 17:35

I’d love dc to be able to submit online (which they do) and not need to print it out too. I hate the sodding printer. Also trying to stretch one Chromebook’s life out between two of them until Christmas when we’ll get them new laptops. mine are secondary but primary it should be:
learn spellings
learn times tables
read a book
tell a family member about three things from your day

anything else is pointless imo.

Yes, absolutely. In year 3 you can add a worksheet covering content that they've already covered in class, so that you can make sure they've understood.

Anything else, the parents are going to do, it's going to be pointless and it's going to take the children away from doing something more fun/active/less pointless.

Lulu1919 · 26/09/2023 20:20

In Pudding Lane a fire did start

The baker burnt his Easter buns

Water came along by cart

Fighting fire fathers and sons

Ok so not great ....lol

pennyfest · 26/09/2023 20:22

Me too actually! Both are secondary age now and we have to keep track of log in details for several different apps and websites. So much so that the school are holding a drop in tutorial session for parents to get help accessing it all! 🤦‍♀️

Comedycook · 26/09/2023 20:29

I remember when my ds did a model making project...DD and I did the whole thing for him. When he took it into school, the teacher asked them all to write a piece describing how they made it. To be fair to ds he actually just wrote "my mum and sister did it for me" 😂

BeMoreBarbie · 26/09/2023 20:31

This homework homework is dire
Just like the London fire.

OldChinaJug · 26/09/2023 20:49

OnlyFoolsnMothers · 26/09/2023 20:11

I personally think open ended creative home works are fine for holidays but in the week they are just pointless and stressful.
interesting how many teachers advocate not doing it. I really don’t want to teach my children that homework is optional, as I think young kids see things very black and white- school isn’t optional. I’ve also heard of children being asked for homework projects they haven’t done, which I think must be really daunting as a child when it’s down to the parents.

Seriously.

Reading is important because children can't access the curriculum if they can't read.

Times tables are important because so much of fluency in maths requires it - multiplication; division; fractions; ratio and proportion, etc. What holds children back most is not knowing their times tables.

The creative projects are (partly) because we spend a lot of time sitting in staff meetings looking at data that shows the gap between PP and non PP children and it's someone's job to come up with another initiative for closing the gap. We are scrutinised by OFSTED in our ability to close the gap. PP is a blunt tool.

Sometimes initiatives are school based and include extra provision and some of those initiatives will be homework related. The thinking will be that, if parents have to be help, the parents will become involved with it and their engagement with school/their child's education will be improved so the children's attainment will be improved. I could explain why that's overly simplistic for the rest of the evening.

The reality is that some parents will worry about getting their children's homework completed and some won't even be able to for various reasons. Some just don't care.

Sometimes, it will be implemented just because someone thinks it's a really good idea.

Parents who are already engaged with their children's education will already be doing extra stuff with their children because they want to. Those who don't care still don't care. Those who would like to but can't for whatever reason just feel more shit.

But at least the school can evidence what they are doing to try. Again, it's the game.

Morred · 26/09/2023 21:20

The easiest way to write a song (if it needs to be a song not just a poem) is to pick one you know and change the words to be about whatever theme you’re working on.

What songs does your DD know? For instance:

Fireman Style
Oppa Fireman Style
Fireman Style
< do the actions >

or

You put the fire hose in, the fire hose out,
In out in out
Shake it all about
You do the fire of London
and burn down the Globe
that’s what it’s all about

ooooh the fire of London
oooooh the fire of London
oooooh the fire of London
Flames burn, bridges down
Fire, fire, fire.

MadKittenWoman · 27/09/2023 10:34

Morred · 26/09/2023 21:20

The easiest way to write a song (if it needs to be a song not just a poem) is to pick one you know and change the words to be about whatever theme you’re working on.

What songs does your DD know? For instance:

Fireman Style
Oppa Fireman Style
Fireman Style
< do the actions >

or

You put the fire hose in, the fire hose out,
In out in out
Shake it all about
You do the fire of London
and burn down the Globe
that’s what it’s all about

ooooh the fire of London
oooooh the fire of London
oooooh the fire of London
Flames burn, bridges down
Fire, fire, fire.

Edited

This made me laugh out loud! Grin

CoffeeCantata · 27/09/2023 10:55

I agree that homework at that age is a bit silly, unless it's a very simple requirement to learn/practise spellings or do a bit of regular reading.

It would have been fine, I think, to ask the children to draw a picture of the Fire of London - something they could do without your input and which takes perhaps more time than they'd have in the school day.

CoffeeCantata · 27/09/2023 10:57

Morred · Yesterday 21:20

You are a genius! I can see the accompanying dance moves already...