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Why won't any political party focus or help the squeezed middle

799 replies

Winterday1991 · 23/09/2023 20:48

Off the back of another thread, has got me thinking about the next general election.

Why is there not a party that will focus on the middle earners in the squeezed south east , where both partners work full time, who are struggling juggling mortgages, cost of childcare and self fund everything and are over threshold for any help or subsidies ie child benefit, cost of living payments, free childcare via universal credit?

We are a middle/highish income family and are just so sick of paying into the system and getting nothing back! The amount of tax we pay is insane, certainly not anywhere near value for money. Labour just seem to want to focus on single parent families and those on universal credit.

Any party who focuses on the middle will surely win the election?

OP posts:
Thread gallery
10
Libertass · 23/09/2023 22:03

The ‘squeezed middle’ are exactly who the Tory party are supposed to exist to represent, but over the last decade, in particular, they have become completely dependent on the retired vote, so they have doubled down on pandering to the social views & economic interests of pensioners. Hence the pensions triple lock, Brexit and now we learn that they are planning to put abolishing inheritance tax in their next manifesto.

ladygindiva · 23/09/2023 22:04

You have to be a wind up op. I'm out. Never read such entitled ignorant crap ever before.

FOJN · 23/09/2023 22:05

Winterday1991 · 23/09/2023 21:46

We are managing, but the point is, we should be doing a lot better considering we are top earners. We just do not get any help from the government but pay a fortune into the system. Why do people on UC get 85% of childcare paid for but we can't? Why can we not claim child benefit or get cost of living payments?

it is just so unfair and causes a lot of resentment. The economically inactive seem to have a lot less stressful lives than we do.

I am grateful for everything we have, we are lucky in lots of ways, but a bit more help or a break from the government would be much appreciated and get my vote.

You're managing but want all the same benefits as people who couldn't manage without them and not getting them makes you resentful. That's not how the welfare state works.

You've clearly never really struggled in low paid work; needing tops ups just to get by or you would know just how stressful such a hand to mouth existence is. Can you imagine having two children and your car/boiler/washing machine breakdown and you won't have the money to repair it until the end of the month and even if you can get credit to tide you over it will be at an exhorbitant interest rate.

You sound ignorant about the reality of other people's lives and greedy.

Housesellingnightmare · 23/09/2023 22:05

This reply has been withdrawn

This has been withdrawn by MNHQ at the OP's request.

Choppysue · 23/09/2023 22:05

Because that is your job, hamster wheel away until you break. Then when digital currency comes in, they can control what comes out as well as what comes in.

lavender2023 · 23/09/2023 22:06

TedMullins · 23/09/2023 22:01

What bollocks. You say you don’t have kids so after paying the mortgage you have 5k left over to play with? How is that squeezed in any way shape or form? I also live in London, combined income here of about 70k, also no kids, and we have a fabulous life, several holidays a year, eat out when we like. The fuck are you spending all your money on?

we do have several holidays per year as well and we overpay the mortgage £1k per month. We don't have a car.

when we bought our flat, we were on £75k combined too though it wasn't for very long and most of it was during the pandemic where we didn't have many expenses! We consider ourself squeezed middle cos the reason why we are ok is cos we had rent free living for 3 years and were able to save up a deposit fairly easily. Someone who didn't have that would probably find it hard to buy on top of childcare fees.

Dadfromthesea · 23/09/2023 22:06

One of the issues is that someone’s salary doesn’t necessarily equate to their disposable income. Also, what people are forced to spend their income on differs in value.

So two people on the same salary might have very different disposable incomes, based partly on choice (eg how many kids they have to pay for, student loan repayments etc) and partly on necessity (housing costs).

Also, since housing is often the biggest single expense, someone renting for £1000 a month is far less well off than someone paying £1000 a month on a mortgage, because that second person is buying a bit of a house with their £1000 whereas the renter is not.

It’s very hard to make fair policy based on income alone. Wealth would be a good place to start looking for more fairness. There are a lot of very wealthy people with very low incomes (eg some pensioners). There are also some people generating wealth by means other than working for a salary (eg people making capital gains, or receiving dividends, or receiving inheritance).

Threads like this never get anywhere because whilst OP’s income of £95k is massive relative to median earnings, everyone’s outgoings are different so their disposable incomes are too.

roarrfeckingroar · 23/09/2023 22:06

The problem is childcare. I'm a single mum of two pre school kids. I earn around £60k. Sounds fabulous but after tax I only take home £3300. I'm in London and my childcare bill is £2000 pcm. My mortgage is another £795. Add in bills, food etc and I would probably be better off on UC getting 85% of my childcare paid for.

caerdydd12 · 23/09/2023 22:06

This reply has been deleted

This has been withdrawn by MNHQ at the OP's request.

Whether they meant to be offensive or not, they were. Plenty of posters have felt the same way, especially where the OP is benefit bashing a "friend" who was a teenage parent just to make her point.

RudsyFarmer · 23/09/2023 22:07

Those who pay income tax above 40% are generally keeping the country going. The rich find ways to tax avoid. I’d quite like there to be a tax break for married couples. Used to be a thing in my parents generation.

caerdydd12 · 23/09/2023 22:08

lavender2023 · 23/09/2023 22:06

we do have several holidays per year as well and we overpay the mortgage £1k per month. We don't have a car.

when we bought our flat, we were on £75k combined too though it wasn't for very long and most of it was during the pandemic where we didn't have many expenses! We consider ourself squeezed middle cos the reason why we are ok is cos we had rent free living for 3 years and were able to save up a deposit fairly easily. Someone who didn't have that would probably find it hard to buy on top of childcare fees.

You can't be serious. You think you're the squeezed middle but can overpay the mortgage by 1k a month?

Papyrophile · 23/09/2023 22:08

I don't support abolishing IHT, but it won't benefit pensioners who die.

AnonAnonandAriston · 23/09/2023 22:12

often people do overstretch with mortgages to get the "dream house" and then end up struggling

When a small 2.5 bed semi is 500k plus we are hardly talking dream house territory 🤣

Timmytap18 · 23/09/2023 22:13

roarrfeckingroar · 23/09/2023 22:06

The problem is childcare. I'm a single mum of two pre school kids. I earn around £60k. Sounds fabulous but after tax I only take home £3300. I'm in London and my childcare bill is £2000 pcm. My mortgage is another £795. Add in bills, food etc and I would probably be better off on UC getting 85% of my childcare paid for.

But you wouldn't own your house at the end of it all. Paying for childcare is a really small amount of time in the grand scheme of things.

You'd really give up owning your own home for 85% of childcare paid for 3 years?

Sunshine997 · 23/09/2023 22:14

We had a household income of 95k, 2 working full time, modest house as you OP, both drove cars less than 5 years old, nice holidays. We werent squeezed, nowhere near. I think you need to have a look at your budget and where your funds are going as something doesnt add up.

lavender2023 · 23/09/2023 22:14

caerdydd12 · 23/09/2023 22:08

You can't be serious. You think you're the squeezed middle but can overpay the mortgage by 1k a month?

well yes because squeezed middle refers to those who don't have bad incomes on paperbut are impacted by inflation/wages not keeping up. I have changed my consumer habits to prioritize my overpayments and i am not saying that they are drastic or even warrant comparing with poorer people but i am affected by inflation. I also worry a lot about family members (like my MIL) who are coping less well and so have to allocate money to that as well.

Ketzele · 23/09/2023 22:16

OP, I am sympathetic to anyone affected by the cost of living crisis (ie most of us). But I promise you that your belief that anyone earning 60-100k is no better off than someone on UC is every kind of wrong. I am a single parent earning just under £60k and living in London. A couple of years ago I was on UC. Trust me, the difference is huge!

shivawn · 23/09/2023 22:17

VeronicaSawyer89 · 23/09/2023 21:48

Jesus OP you don't know you're born! 2 parent, 2 kids household and our total including tax credit is 25k! I'm so sorry your diamond shoes are too tight!

Okay but OP is in a household where both parents work. You can't be both working unless someone is extremely part time.

caerdydd12 · 23/09/2023 22:18

lavender2023 · 23/09/2023 22:14

well yes because squeezed middle refers to those who don't have bad incomes on paperbut are impacted by inflation/wages not keeping up. I have changed my consumer habits to prioritize my overpayments and i am not saying that they are drastic or even warrant comparing with poorer people but i am affected by inflation. I also worry a lot about family members (like my MIL) who are coping less well and so have to allocate money to that as well.

Edited

"The squeezed middle feel that they are experiencing as much economic pressure as their working-class neighbours."

You feel, after overpaying 12k a year on your mortgage, that you're feeling as much economic pressure as the working class? You must be having a laugh.

Headingforholidays · 23/09/2023 22:19

Winterday1991 · 23/09/2023 21:05

We are a parent household with a joint income of £95K

But outside the SE this is not squeezed middle at all, it is a very comfortable income.

Housesellingnightmare · 23/09/2023 22:20

This reply has been withdrawn

This has been withdrawn by MNHQ at the OP's request.

Nat6999 · 23/09/2023 22:20

Try being disabled & getting less than £20k, everything costs more, higher heating due to being at home all the time, higher food costs because you have to pay delivery due to being virtually housebound, anything I want has delivery charges on it. I must pay probably £100 a month in delivery fees. A trip to the dentist costs £25 in taxi fares because I'm not driving at the moment, visit my mum 10 minutes away £20. Add in the dread of a brown envelope from the DWP dropping through the door as well.

lavender2023 · 23/09/2023 22:21

caerdydd12 · 23/09/2023 22:18

"The squeezed middle feel that they are experiencing as much economic pressure as their working-class neighbours."

You feel, after overpaying 12k a year on your mortgage, that you're feeling as much economic pressure as the working class? You must be having a laugh.

You should read road to wigan pier lol. this sentiment is age old. I do understand that you may disagree but its clear George orwell didn't! And our society is becoming increasingly feudal.

'I was born into what you might describe as the lower-upper-middle
class. The upper-middle class, which had its heyday in the eighties and
nineties, with Kipling as its poet laureate, was a sort of mound of
wreckage left behind when the tide of Victorian prosperity receded. Or
perhaps it would be better to change the metaphor and describe it not as a
mound but as a layer--the layer of society lying between L2000 and L300 a
year: my own family was not far from the bottom. You notice that I define
it in terms of money, because that is always the quickest way of making
yourself understood. Nevertheless, the essential point about the English
class-system is that it is not entirely explicable in terms of money.
Roughly speaking it is a money-stratification, but it is also
interpenetrated by a sort of shadowy caste-system; rather like a jerrybuilt
modem bungalow haunted by medieval ghosts. Hence the fact that the upper-
middle class extends or extended to incomes as low as L300 a year--to
incomes, that is, much lower than those of merely middle-class people with
no social pretensions. Probably there are countries where you can predict a
man's opinions from his income, but it is never quite safe to do so in
England; you have always got to take his traditions into consideration as
well. A naval officer and his grocer very likely have the same income, but
they are not equivalent persons and they would only be on the same side in
very large issues such as a war or a general strike--possibly not even
then.

Of course it is obvious now that the upper-middle class is done for.
In every country town in Southern England, not to mention the dreary wastes
of Kensington and Earl's Court, those who knew it in the days of its glory
are dying, vaguely embittered by a world which has not behaved as it ought.
I never open one of Kipling's books or go into one of the huge dull shops
which were once the favourite haunt of the upper-middle class, without
thinking 'Change and decay in all around I see'. But before the war the
upper-middle class, though already none too prosperous, still felt sure of
itself. Before the war you were either a gentleman or not a gentleman, and
if you were a gentleman you struggled to behave as such, whatever your
income might be. Between those with L400 a year and those with L2000 or
even L1000 a year there was a great gulf fixed, but it was a gulf which
those with L400 a year did their best to ignore. Probably the
distinguishing mark of the upper-middle class was that its traditions were
not to any extent commercial, but mainly military, official, and
professional.

People in this class owned no land, but they felt that they were
landowners in the sight of God and kept up a semi-aristocratic outlook by
going into the professions and the fighting services rather than into
trade. Small boys used to count the plum stones on their plates and
foretell their destiny by chanting, 'Army, Navy, Church, Medicine, Law';
and even of these 'Medicine' was faintly inferior to the others and only
put in for the sake of symmetry. To belong to this class when you were at
the L400 a year level was a queer business, for it meant that your
gentility was almost purely theoretical. You lived, so to speak, at two
levels simultaneously. Theoretically you knew all about servants and how to
tip them, although in practice you had one, at most, two resident servants.
Theoretically you knew how to wear your clothes and how to order a dinner,
although in practice you could never afford to go to a decent tailor or a
decent restaurant. Theoretically you knew how to shoot and ride, although
in practice you had no horses to ride and not an inch of ground to shoot
over. It was this that explained the attraction of India (more recently
Kenya, Nigeria, etc.) for the lower-upper-middle class. The people who went
there as soldiers and officials did not go there to make money, for a
soldier or an official does not want money; they went there because in
India, with cheap horses, free shooting, and hordes of black servants, it
was so easy to play at being a gentleman.

In the kind of shabby-genteel family that I am talking about there is
far more consciousness of poverty than in any working-class family above
the level of the dole. Rent and clothes and school-bills are an unending
nightmare, and every luxury, even a glass of beer, is an unwarrantable
extravagance. Practically the whole family income goes in keeping up
appearances. It is obvious that people of this kind are in an anomalous
position, and one might 'be tempted to write them off as mere exceptions
and therefore unimportant. Actually, however, they are or were fairly
numerous. Most clergymen and schoolmasters, for instance, nearly all Anglo-
Indian officials, a sprinkling of soldiers and sailors, and a fair number
of professional men and artists, fall into this category. But the real
importance of this class is that they are the shock-absorbers of the
bourgeoisie. The real bourgeoisie, those in the L2000 a year class and
over, have their money as a thick layer of padding between themselves and
the class they plunder; in so far as they are aware of the Lower Orders at
all they are aware of them as employees, servants, and tradesmen. But it is
quite different for the poor devils lower down who are struggling to live
genteel lives on what are virtually working-class incomes. These last are
forced into close and, in a sense, intimate contact with the working class,
and I suspect it is from them that the traditional upper-class attitude
towards 'common' people is derived.;

caerdydd12 · 23/09/2023 22:22

lavender2023 · 23/09/2023 22:21

You should read road to wigan pier lol. this sentiment is age old. I do understand that you may disagree but its clear George orwell didn't! And our society is becoming increasingly feudal.

'I was born into what you might describe as the lower-upper-middle
class. The upper-middle class, which had its heyday in the eighties and
nineties, with Kipling as its poet laureate, was a sort of mound of
wreckage left behind when the tide of Victorian prosperity receded. Or
perhaps it would be better to change the metaphor and describe it not as a
mound but as a layer--the layer of society lying between L2000 and L300 a
year: my own family was not far from the bottom. You notice that I define
it in terms of money, because that is always the quickest way of making
yourself understood. Nevertheless, the essential point about the English
class-system is that it is not entirely explicable in terms of money.
Roughly speaking it is a money-stratification, but it is also
interpenetrated by a sort of shadowy caste-system; rather like a jerrybuilt
modem bungalow haunted by medieval ghosts. Hence the fact that the upper-
middle class extends or extended to incomes as low as L300 a year--to
incomes, that is, much lower than those of merely middle-class people with
no social pretensions. Probably there are countries where you can predict a
man's opinions from his income, but it is never quite safe to do so in
England; you have always got to take his traditions into consideration as
well. A naval officer and his grocer very likely have the same income, but
they are not equivalent persons and they would only be on the same side in
very large issues such as a war or a general strike--possibly not even
then.

Of course it is obvious now that the upper-middle class is done for.
In every country town in Southern England, not to mention the dreary wastes
of Kensington and Earl's Court, those who knew it in the days of its glory
are dying, vaguely embittered by a world which has not behaved as it ought.
I never open one of Kipling's books or go into one of the huge dull shops
which were once the favourite haunt of the upper-middle class, without
thinking 'Change and decay in all around I see'. But before the war the
upper-middle class, though already none too prosperous, still felt sure of
itself. Before the war you were either a gentleman or not a gentleman, and
if you were a gentleman you struggled to behave as such, whatever your
income might be. Between those with L400 a year and those with L2000 or
even L1000 a year there was a great gulf fixed, but it was a gulf which
those with L400 a year did their best to ignore. Probably the
distinguishing mark of the upper-middle class was that its traditions were
not to any extent commercial, but mainly military, official, and
professional.

People in this class owned no land, but they felt that they were
landowners in the sight of God and kept up a semi-aristocratic outlook by
going into the professions and the fighting services rather than into
trade. Small boys used to count the plum stones on their plates and
foretell their destiny by chanting, 'Army, Navy, Church, Medicine, Law';
and even of these 'Medicine' was faintly inferior to the others and only
put in for the sake of symmetry. To belong to this class when you were at
the L400 a year level was a queer business, for it meant that your
gentility was almost purely theoretical. You lived, so to speak, at two
levels simultaneously. Theoretically you knew all about servants and how to
tip them, although in practice you had one, at most, two resident servants.
Theoretically you knew how to wear your clothes and how to order a dinner,
although in practice you could never afford to go to a decent tailor or a
decent restaurant. Theoretically you knew how to shoot and ride, although
in practice you had no horses to ride and not an inch of ground to shoot
over. It was this that explained the attraction of India (more recently
Kenya, Nigeria, etc.) for the lower-upper-middle class. The people who went
there as soldiers and officials did not go there to make money, for a
soldier or an official does not want money; they went there because in
India, with cheap horses, free shooting, and hordes of black servants, it
was so easy to play at being a gentleman.

In the kind of shabby-genteel family that I am talking about there is
far more consciousness of poverty than in any working-class family above
the level of the dole. Rent and clothes and school-bills are an unending
nightmare, and every luxury, even a glass of beer, is an unwarrantable
extravagance. Practically the whole family income goes in keeping up
appearances. It is obvious that people of this kind are in an anomalous
position, and one might 'be tempted to write them off as mere exceptions
and therefore unimportant. Actually, however, they are or were fairly
numerous. Most clergymen and schoolmasters, for instance, nearly all Anglo-
Indian officials, a sprinkling of soldiers and sailors, and a fair number
of professional men and artists, fall into this category. But the real
importance of this class is that they are the shock-absorbers of the
bourgeoisie. The real bourgeoisie, those in the L2000 a year class and
over, have their money as a thick layer of padding between themselves and
the class they plunder; in so far as they are aware of the Lower Orders at
all they are aware of them as employees, servants, and tradesmen. But it is
quite different for the poor devils lower down who are struggling to live
genteel lives on what are virtually working-class incomes. These last are
forced into close and, in a sense, intimate contact with the working class,
and I suspect it is from them that the traditional upper-class attitude
towards 'common' people is derived.;

Edited

Quoting the works of someone who died nearly 75 years ago, very relevant.......

Papyrophile · 23/09/2023 22:23

I always trot my mum's case out here. She was divorced in 1977, and got very little out of it. No house, no share in the pension. So she worked as a mh carer until she was 78 years old, latterly part time, about 30 hours a week. Now, she qualifies for pension credit, because otherwise she's entitled to £156 per week. plus some heating allowances. It's not a luxury life.

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