Why won't any political party focus or help the squeezed middle

[Winterday1991]

Off the back of another thread, has got me thinking about the next general election.

Why is there not a party that will focus on the middle earners in the squeezed south east , where both partners work full time, who are struggling juggling mortgages, cost of childcare and self fund everything and are over threshold for any help or subsidies ie child benefit, cost of living payments, free childcare via universal credit?

We are a middle/highish income family and are just so sick of paying into the system and getting nothing back! The amount of tax we pay is insane, certainly not anywhere near value for money. Labour just seem to want to focus on single parent families and those on universal credit.

Any party who focuses on the middle will surely win the election?

But that's not how pensions work. Their payments paid for the previous generation.my current payments pay for them..I am not saying we should slash pensions but at the same time they are the biggest cost..I would cancel triple lock, it is only fair given all the other cuts, they should also share the burden.

But at the same time focus on growth so we can actually fund services..wealth tax and property tax as well..tax assets not income.

I know it's bleak..when I say economic growth, also levelling up of the north but no one seems interested in that...

And there are huge numbers of pensioners( mainly women who generally live longer) who have barely worked, so have very low state pensions, so are topped up by large amounts of pension credit and everything else that comes with that like completely free rent, council tax, dental care, opticians, TV license, cost of living payments. I'm not knocking them as it was often the case that women stayed at home for years ( my own mum barely worked), but this is often the reality - they have paid very little in.

Personally having been on tax credits as a single mother and now just below the family income range of the OP (but definitely don’t have 12k a year to over pay mortgage and 4 nights in a caravan once a year is a struggle to afford) I can see your point. I had more of a disposable income as a new graduate then we do now but then now we have a house we’ll hopefully one day own and as older kids growing up it’s not like having to face losing money had relied on, are allowed saving (if we could) etc so it’s swings and roundabouts.
I think the issue is there are no tax breaks for people with children so people look at a someone on 60k and imagine they are absolutely loaded which is probably true if you hadn’t got kids but if you have then often not. However if you’ve got kids, after other income related tariffs on top such as tax, student loans, maintenance, childcare etc plus mortgage for a family home then there really isn’t a huge gulf between you and someone on UC so can understand why people get frustrated. If families were given a tax allowance equivalent to the personal tax allowance for each child they had, this would be a fair and simple solution.

I will always challenge those who think a person on a £50-60k salary is “worse off” than someone on UC.

Worth pointing out that those two things aren't mutually exclusive, either. Such is the crisis in housing and childcare costs that we have in this country, you can be a 40% taxpayer and still get universal credit.

I am definitely not talking about lowering benefits, any subsidies. I also don't say Singapore doesn't have its issues.

I am talking about state of economy in UK and level of corruption in Westminster. Is there one area where UK is doing OK. Atleast other developed countries are doing some things ok.

Since you are only focussing on on comparison with Singapore, there is a higher % of young population studying and learning science based skills which prepare the country for future changes in global markets or any set backs. India had a low cost English speaking population which resulted in a lot of global companies sending back office operations to India, contributing to its economy.

What is UK's plan to develop the economy, its skill base? How will it pay for subsidies.

UK's economy is declining and whatever status it has is due to its powerful global position in the past. As bad as UK was in the past, it made significant contribution to science, innovation and technology. Where is UK now? Even NHS, pride of the country, is crying out for financial help. One thing UK is leading in the developed world is - one of the most corrupt government with no accountability.

Also, Singapore has significantly higher salaries and lower taxes for skilled jobs compared to UK. Whatever the details might be and I have a close family living there, they have better quality of life and social problems than in the UK. UK government takes money and first line its own pocket, waste public on starting and scrapping projects, big contracts to their friends and families. Forever full salary pension for PMs who worked only 2 months.

Sad thing is posters are trying to win arguments, asking middle class people to shut up for wanting improvements in their financial circumstances because they are not as hard done by others.

Squeezed middle and you earn 90 thousand pounds - seriously? You're nowhere near the middle.

The focus is on much lower incomes because they need more help. Most high earners are struggling to afford their expensive houses, expensive cars, expensive holidays, expensive hobbies, expensive clothes, because of the cost of living crisis.

A lot of people on low income are struggling to afford to feed their children, heat their homes so their children don't freeze during winter, pay the rent for a damp flat with a value of £70k in a shitty little town with nothing except charity shops. No job prospects so they have to commute to work, costing even more money. They're struggling to exist, on a very basic level - not struggling to keep up with some sort of lifestyle. That's the reality for a lot of people in the town I'm from.

If you earn almost 100k combined, you cannot be living modestly. If you can't afford your lifestyle, live more modestly. You have the option to move somewhere cheaper. Buy a cheaper, second hand car or take public transport. Skip a holiday one year - my mum works full time, often overtime too. and hasn't been on holiday for 10 years. Ideally there'd be an endless pot of money to help everyone, but there isn't. You can't cry poverty when you could make the cut backs and choose not to.

I agree with PP that you really lack perspective. You are trying to live in a way that you can't afford. Other people are struggling to live AT ALL

Totally understand where you are coming from.

What benefits life? I live in London and we earn combined £120k. We earned combined £75k in 2018. So basically have been in this 'range' for a while.. our flat would cost £1850 to rent on the private market (while we managed to buy it on our incomes). I don't like to think how I would manage private rent in London on benefits and many families in London are living in single rooms while waiting for council housing.

@lavender2023

You're naive and in what you think is going on out there! We're on a slightly higher salary to you and I've got little ones at nursery. My entire salary goes on childcare while my husband deals with our mortgage and bills. Ive had to take on extra work in the past when my husband fell ill and wasn't able to work for a few months. When I looked into benefits while he was ill, I found we weren't entitled to any benefits because my salary was too high!!! Out of the private work I took on, for every £1000 I earned, I took home just £467- the rest was taxed!!!

I met a family through work last week who live in an amazing new build apartment in central London with 3 children and another baby on the way. The smell of cannabis smacked you in the face as you walked in (mum was heavily pregnant). Her children's dad is not on the scene. She openly told me she didn't pay any rent and was on benefits and didn't feel she needed to work because she was too busy looking after her children. I had to bite my tongue from saying something (the truth) in reply. There are people like this mum everywhere.

It's a fucking joke. I'll say it again, I absolutely HATE the Tories and have always voted Labour but let's face it- even they're a fucking joke- I dread to think how they're going to make entitled benefit seekers even more entitled by throwing some more of my money at them!

It's going to take a massive overhaul of tax and benefits to get the country moving.

Not going to happen.

Actually what's more likely is that whoever wins the next election will find a way to take more money from the ever shrinking productive minority (probably by taking more money from accumulated saving/messing around with ISAs as well as taxing income even more, either through taxation or inflation to pay for inflation busting increases to pensions/welfare). There is absolutely no way that any Government will change the benefits system as this would be a vote loser and there are now more people who take than pay in and turkeys don't vote for Christmas.

I think the issue is there are no tax breaks for people with children so people look at a someone on 60k and imagine they are absolutely loaded which is probably true if you hadn’t got kids but if you have then often not.

God this is such a tired narrative on MN. The only expense in life is children, us childless folks are bloody rolling in £££ dontchaknow.

How many single mums of 3 kids managed to get an amazing new build apartment. Please tell me so I can help my friend who has severe mental illness, been sectioned more times than I can count and still stays in temporary accommodation in London (and was sleeping rough for months).

Tax breaks for people with children - heard it all now. Everyone's taxes are paying for children's education, healthcare, free prescriptions, maternity care for the mum; child benefit and free childcare for those who qualify, the UC top-ups that people with children can get if on a low income (but which you don't get if on the same income with no children).

I don't begrudge this use of my taxes but parents should take a moment to consider how much government support they actually get for the privilege of bringing their DC into the world.

Congratulations on the twins!! 🥰
i completely agree there is a lack of understanding about how the system works by many people, even people on UC who don’t realise what they are entitled to, for example being totally oblivious to the fact they can get 85% or their childcare costs paid if on UC. I also work with families and the number who don’t bother claiming child benefit for their 3rd child as they don’t realise the 2 child rule applies to UC payments, not child benefit 🤦🏻‍♀️
I also think the people who draw up these policies have never actually sat down and totted up what the take home pay of someone of 60k after tax and common deductions such as student loan repayments (higher if masters also), maintenance, CBHIC, pension etc and compared it someone who is entitled to UC, do they really intend to take so much tax off such families that the only benefit to not being on UC is having a pension and own house (but until then basically the same disposable income as someone on UC) There just seems to be a view in this country that you are either poor and on UC or you are rich, very little appreciation of the huge overlaps between and the ceilings created by policy. I.e. you will be better off to a point working and will be better off again once go over another certain point but at certain points the loss of income is rather cliff edge. 50-60k is one of those cliff edges due to the 40% tax rate and CBHIC kicking in at the same point.
Good luck with the twins and definitely have a look at entitled.com to see whether you would be entitled to the UC childcare component to pay for the twins childcare (btw can claim childcare for 3rd subsequent children under UC, it’s just the overall childcare amount a family can claim is capped)

@Babyroobs

Yes I can see that as well

Unfortunately the damp 70k flat is unlikely to be a thing in OPs are (she said SE). More like a 200k damp flat.

Until you know her house and mortgage you can't possibly know if she is living lavishly and unfortunately living in Middlesbrough and working in Kent me be a bit too much of a commute for some

Even suggesting that someone on 90k needs to be looking at cutting back like she is on benefits is just crazy
A good job should afford a little more luxury than someone on benefits

Did you read t(e bit where I’ve never earned as much as them and have been better off than people on UC?
You are fixating on the child care years (no help when my DD was little incidentally) where you might have a point, but not considering the position when the children go to school. Unless you can step straight back into your salary it’ll have knock on forever.

its funny how they don’t get the irony of having several kids then complaining that they are finding childcare and the associated costs expensive.

how about have the amount of kids you can afford, without the government giving you handouts for them…

@lavender2023 it may be politically impossible to slash pensions. It should also be unnecessary. We have amongst the lowest pensions in Europe. Why do you think we can’t afford them?

Me, a disabled single parent who’s unable to work watching this thread. I cannot afford to put my child in extra childcare at nursery as he’s not eligible for extra funding because I’m not working (I’m disabled) and I don’t have a working partner (I’m single). I cannot afford to have the heating on for long periods of time, which impacts my health as I have severe arthritis. I cannot afford to go on holiday which would give me some light to my circumstance with my health, nor my give my child a family holiday. I can’t afford ‘luxuries’, no takeaways, non essential clothing, no day trips out. I get my hair cut maybe every 5 years because I cannot afford it - so I have to cut it at home. I live in a flat with no garden, no balcony and because I’m disabled and can’t get out often this has impacted me and made me severely vitamin D deficient. But again, I cannot afford to get out of that situation and ‘better myself’. Life on benefits isn’t fun and games.

I’ve said this already (I realise you probs haven’t seen it yet - not a criticism more an explanation for repeating myself) Pensions in the U.K. are amongst the lowest in Europe and you want them to drop further? Why?
there are many reasons the country is short of money. None will be solved by making everybody’s old age worse.