Why won't any political party focus or help the squeezed middle

[Winterday1991]

Off the back of another thread, has got me thinking about the next general election.

Why is there not a party that will focus on the middle earners in the squeezed south east , where both partners work full time, who are struggling juggling mortgages, cost of childcare and self fund everything and are over threshold for any help or subsidies ie child benefit, cost of living payments, free childcare via universal credit?

We are a middle/highish income family and are just so sick of paying into the system and getting nothing back! The amount of tax we pay is insane, certainly not anywhere near value for money. Labour just seem to want to focus on single parent families and those on universal credit.

Any party who focuses on the middle will surely win the election?

Yy @Asiatoyork re the need to tax income less heavily relatively to wealth.

I don’t know why you’re getting such a shit time; it’s this change in economic behaviour which should worry everyone reliant on the state. The chancellor has been told, the ONS are shouting it from the roof tops. There are real issues with the tax system. So short sighted.

Completely agree, it is so so short sighted

I am currently paying off a loan but once that is gone I am considering dropping my hours and going part time - thanks to the 60% tax trap on earnings between 100-125k, the tax saving will mean that I'm hardly worse off yet I will start to get some semblance of a work life balance, it will help my health and wellbeing and I'll be around more for my family

So not only will the government lose tax/NI on the 20% of my salary that I'm no longer earning, I'll get my personal allowance back so that's another 12.5k out of the HMRC pot

I know other net contributors thinking along the same lines, and that reduction in tax contribution per person will start to add up if enough people do it.

The same group of people get hammered every time there is tax policy change and yes, I totally get that higher earners should contribute more, but regional variations in housing costs mean that it negatively effects some disproportionately and frankly people are starting to resent it.

UC entitlement is only one part of the picture really.

Yep, also getting fed up with the 'how dare you think about how things affect you,.don't know that's evil and selfish and you need to put everyone else first'..
And all this chat on 'oh at least you'll have your pension' what so we can continue paying for absolutely everything while those who have never worked or contributed still get everything for free- and can have £16k in savings!

We are a middle/highish income family and are just so sick of paying into the system and getting nothing back

do you want to swap lifestyles? I have two disabled children, one with extremely complex needs. We do pay in to the system, but get more back than we pay in (in terms of nhs/education/other services). dh works full time, I am a carer, no UC or tax credits. We didn’t ask for our lives to be like this and would much rather our children not have the difficulties they face daily. I’d love to be part of the ‘squeezed middle’, paying in more than they get out and who are lucky enough not to need the services we need.

Erm I didn’t say anything about you taking over the thread. I agreed with you that if you choose to give up work then society should be responsible for helping to ensure that your dc are not raised in poverty.

I don’t think we have a tax and benefit system that rewards people for less work. I certainly don’t expect anything from the government just for holding down a job. My dh and I both work hard and earn very well. Dh is self-employed and my earnings are target and bonus related so in actual fact we are highly rewarded for more work. I choose to put my efforts into making sure that I earn as much as I possibly can rather than worrying about what other people do or don’t ‘get’. Other people’s choices don’t offend or interest me that much if I’m honest.

That being said I do feel strongly that no child should grow up in poverty. If we have to give benefits to a some parents who have made what some might feel to be feckless choices to ensure that their dc are fed and clothed then in my book that’s money well spent. Even if they have chosen to give up
a secure role without a thought to the impact on their dc’s future security.

It’s very short sighted of women (and let’s be honest, it’s almost always the women) to give up their careers, their pension contributions and their progression. For a period of time, it feels like you all you do is work and don’t see any benefit. The days feel long when you are working and have childcare to pay but the years go fast. It isn’t an extended period of time. They aren’t in need of childcare forever! It’s a slog but it’s often worth it in career terms. With so many marriages and relationships ending, many women (yeah it’s usually the women, see the pattern…?) end up high and dry.
If you can drop your hours and know you’ll have the opportunity to get them back again, then you might be lucky. I know it’s worked well for friends who are teachers and nurses and similar professions. Otherwise, you are taking a huge gamble. Obviously it’s personal choice but let’s not pretend it’s a good and sensible idea for a lot of people.

You think so ?? Well I have a disease which is going to kill me and I used to be a middle earner .. not as high as you but I was there about .. I’m on UC and you think me and you are the same financially?!? Yes I don’t have to work but I have to live off £300 per month … you think that’s equal ? In the end you voted this government in (I presume) charmed by Boris .. you have floated above this economic crisis and only noticing because it’s affecting you now .. sorry if you are not a conservative voter but most down south are and I’ve no sympathy.. 13 years the conservatives have systematically ruined this country take take take for themselves … no pay rises for anyone but themselves… £900 million profit ONE electric company made last year. The simple and clear way is to tax the rich instead of letting them keep their money tax free in off shore account .. tax them and we’ll have plenty money .. 👍

I totally agree with you and we are about to do the same as it's not worth working more, we are paying so much tax for not much more income than if we claimed UC, plus we would get all the extras like free prescriptions, council tax reduction and free school meals, plus most/all of our rent paid. It's a no-brainer and we would have much more free time (because we would be able to go part time and not be much more worse off) and not have to do horrendous and expensive commutes.

It doesn't make sense but it seems this government think people will gladly just work even longer hours to pay 40% tax (or have a 60% marginal tax rate if earning over £100k) and not change their behaviour. I imagine lots of people realised this over covid, that life is too short to pay tax to fund barmy systems when your quality of life can be much better earning less.

You will not get all those things you listed. Do your bloody research. I am a single parent earning £22k and I get UC and I do not get council tax reduction, free school meals or free prescriptions. You're talking out of your arse. The only people who get those things have a household income of less than £8k, are you planning to reduce your income to under £8k?

We are a parent household with a joint income of £95K

What do you want, exactly? I'm a single parent of 3 I earn £39k. I get child benefit, DLA for one child and the princely sum of £8.52 a week in tax credits. No maintenance from the ex. I also tutor part time, mark exams and run a summer club for 4 weeks during my 'holiday'. Brings in an extra £4k or thereabouts. I don't have childcare anymore but that was never fully covered when I did.

What are you doing to help yourself earn extra income, given that there's two of you?

I.understand the cost of living in the SE - used to live there. Had to move post-divorce. What is it you think any Government should reasonably give you on an income of £95k? Bearing in mind, everyone who earns under that would have be to be given it (and possibly more) as well?

Tax exiles are my bugbear.
Ffs contribute to the society that helped you and yours along the way.

Tax exiles are feted in my country ( Ireland ) for the charities or sports teams etc they are involved with.
Politicians brown nose them.
They are only allowed a certain number of days in our country but they can park their private jets in airports in Northern Ireland ( different jurisdiction ) and travel to their mansions by chauffeured limo. The authorities won't see those visits.

It doesn't discourage work though. Certainly not in my experience of claiming for 15 years. The more I work, the better off I am, especially now I no longer have childcare costs. Can't wait to get off UC completely and I'm hoping to get promoted soon to rely on it less. People who have never claimed seem to glamourise it, no idea why. It's different when you're actually on it.

I’m a single income household, no kids so entitled to nothing and never have been. I was a HR taxpayer (just) for 15 years, working like a dog to keep up with bills etc because one income doesn’t go far these days. I made myself really ill.

I’ve given up now and reduced my hours. Due to becoming a BR taxpayer I’ve lost barely any income but I’ve gained a bunch of time back.

This clearly is not good for the country, but I was tired of putting the country before my own health. I don’t know what the answer is OP but you’re not wrong in principle that people aren’t going to act against their own self-interest forever and ever just because someone else needs their tax contributions. That’s not realistic or sustainable.

Do they bollocks!
I’ve never earned anything like that and I’m WAY better off than UC.

UC is only one part of the picture though. Someone on 99.5k whose DC gets 30 nursery hours almost certainly won't be on UC, but will still probably consider whether it's worth dropping to 15 free hours if their income goes over 100k. There are lots of other potential permutations. Child benefit entitlement is another. If you're only thinking about this in terms of UC, you miss out on a lot of important stuff.

Where is the father of your child? Why is he not paying for childcare. Why should almost one income out of our partnership go towards childcare whilst you pay very little?

Jesus wept, OP. Give your head a wobble. The child maintenance system does.not work for too many children. Don't be part of the problem and blame the one left holding the ba ies and trying to work full time. If there is no childcare support for single parents, they wouldn't work. Better there is support and tax is paid then no tax paid and benefits picking up the full cost of supporting that family.

Alternatively, those families can live on the streets, perhaps?

Yes we are. I've done my research thanks. We would get most/all of our very expensive London rent paid (which is currently paid from after taxed salary), plus be able to earn a little from part-time wrk without losing UC because of the taper and because we have kids. We are seriously considering it because we are burnt out from commuting/paying lots of tax for the privilege of working.

My DS is 15, nearly 16 so I've only got 2 more years of UC entitlement. I won't be going back on it because I will no longer be entitled to it! I will have to support DS to go to university with no added help, his dad certainly won't help out. I need to increase my salary to at least £30k over the next 2 years to make up the difference. This kind of thing is what people forget. I'd far rather be on a £95k salary and not have to worry about money when my UC goes away!

You clearly haven't if you think you will get free school meals, prescriptions and council tax reductions. You won't.

And you actually won't be able to reduce your income to less than £8k either if you're able to work, only people with limited capacity to work can do that. You will be required to work more.