Why won't any political party focus or help the squeezed middle

[Winterday1991]

Off the back of another thread, has got me thinking about the next general election.

Why is there not a party that will focus on the middle earners in the squeezed south east , where both partners work full time, who are struggling juggling mortgages, cost of childcare and self fund everything and are over threshold for any help or subsidies ie child benefit, cost of living payments, free childcare via universal credit?

We are a middle/highish income family and are just so sick of paying into the system and getting nothing back! The amount of tax we pay is insane, certainly not anywhere near value for money. Labour just seem to want to focus on single parent families and those on universal credit.

Any party who focuses on the middle will surely win the election?

Some childcare hours for low earned are supposedly free. But the government does not pay enough to fund this so in reality you pay money towards it. It is cheaper therefore, but not free.

Exactly.

@Crochetgril23 I am not bitter but not sure the same can be said about you frothing at the mouth at every freebie benefit claimants can get. Nice chatting to you though. 🤣

Yep, I didn’t live on my own in London until I was earning 45K and it was still quite a squeeze. It was a decent flat but out in zone 5. Before that I’d been living in flatshares during my early 30s.

Ah the flounce. I didn’t even get to the end of your comments and I guessed it would end up with a “no one is listening to me” type comment

You are just awful and judgemental and I am saying that as someone in a similar household income to you. Who the hell are you to ask “where is the father” in such a disrespectful tone? There are many reasons as to why parents are single families and it is not always because of irresponsible people popping out kids so they can claim benefits.

I would have thought in 2023 we would have got rid of these stereotypes but obviously not

Seriously, you have a combined income of £95k and you are complaining because you don't get any help?!

I really despair about the entitlement of some people.

I agree with your posts @Crochetgril23 do what’s best for you and your twins.

I have a friend who has 3 kids between 12 and 16 and she has worked part time (16 hours) since the youngest went to school - she didn’t work at all before that.

Her partner does handy man work here and there but is home a lot too. I’ve often wondered why they’re both working so few hours despite the kids being fairly independent now, but now I realise it’s probably due to benefit top ups.

I don’t know what the answer is but the governments handling of the economy which has led to stagnation of pay hasn’t helped. As well as their refusal to get a grip on the housing crisis.

And I wonder if by cultivating a dependency on government this is how each party currys favour with a large section of the electorate.

Whilst you are not in squeezed middle at all, and I think you are very un self aware, there is a bigger issue here that income from earnings does not get people where is used to.

Vast increases in asset value means that income and wealth accrues to people with wealth now at a greater rate than since after WW2. Inequality is greater.

Income tax and things like capital gains tax should be closer in % terms. Scrapping inheritance tax makes it worse.

That’s what all people who actually earn their income should be angry about!

OP has her head in the clouds and doesn’t know the financial ins and outs of what she’s trying to argue.

HOWEVER. We need to listen to people like the OP because they could very well be some of the people who enable the tories to stay in power. Don’t just say she’s being an arsehole. Try to listen and engage. Understand why she’s pissed off. The DM propaganda may well play a part but don’t dismiss her experience immediately.

i agree with some pp that a big proportion of this issue is about childcare. People don’t mind paying a lot more into the system if they can see that they’re getting a decent deal from it. Obviously OP must understand that her taxes are paying for hospitals and schools etc but those things would be available to her even if she wasn’t paying tax. And things like prescriptions would be free, and dental treatment, which they’re not if you’re not entitled to benefits.

One of the main sources of resentment IME from middle-earning women such as OP is to do with working full time and missing out on time with kids. If you’re paying through the nose for full time childcare (which lets not forget in the south east can be as much as £1400 a month per child) then it’s going to sting if you can see someone else getting that same childcare for free, especially if you don’t think your lifestyle is actually any better than theirs as a result of choosing to work/work more. But even more so is the fact that full time working parents often have to use wrap around childcare and that builds a lot of resentment. Broadly speaking at the school gates the mums who can drop off and collect their DC from school at 3.15 every day are either a) living a life of relative luxury because their DH earns massive amounts and they could afford to be a SAHM out of choice/lifestyle or b) not working or working only a few hours a week. Yes there are exceptions like shift workers etc but generally speaking, people like OP will always feel like they are getting the worst of both worlds when they are missing out on time with their DC to go to work full time but don’t earn enough to go on luxurious holidays and have a massive house and not worry about money at all.

Many people mid-30s earning a middle “professional” wage also have good pension schemes that they will be thankful for eventually but take 10%+ of their monthly pay check. Similarly many still have huge student loans they will be paying off for many years which enabled them to get “professional” jobs. Yes overall financially it is worth it but people don’t necessarily think about the big picture on a monthly basis. Same with mortgage vs housing association/getting housing benefit. Obviously it’s better to own your own home for a multitude of reasons but it can be much more costly on a monthly basis to ultimately feel like you’re not really any better off.

People who commute in the south east are also often paying £500+ per person in season ticket costs for shit unreliable overcrowded transport which makes them even later to collect their precious DC from the wrap around care they pay so much for and then they incur fines because the trains are late and nursery should be closing.

The importance being placed on the 4 different dads.

Me too, mine is £1700. No child maintenance. I pay everything out of this. Im missing a trick.

So does everyone elses. I bring home £1700 all in. My council tax is £112pm and mortgage £600 alone.

@Crochetgril23 you must acknowledge though that there is SOME propaganda, and the DM have a vested interested in the tories remaining in power. There can be elements of truth in some aspects of what they say without it being all completely factual and non-biased.

I can easily see how childcare would wipe out a huge chunk of a £60k salary and the point is that you will then have to miss out on time with your kids. I do have similar feelings myself. A girl I went to school with is undoubtedly worse off than we are financially, her partner works full time but in a low wage job and they live in housing association property whereas we are lucky to have a (huge) mortgage and own. We have two kids of similar ages including under 3s. However she gets to spend all her time with her youngest and gets to drop and collect her eldest from school as she doesn’t work. Whereas I have to use childcare and only get one day during the week with my youngest because my husband doesn’t earn such huge amounts that I could just give up work completely. We are undoubtedly better off overall financially but at the end of the day we both live in a three bed semi and she gets to spend all her time with her kids but I don’t. And I don’t reap huge rewards for this sacrifice either - we can probably afford a slightly nicer holiday and would worry a bit less about a one off bill or unexpected expense but other than that our daily lives are the same, we both shop in Aldi, dress our kids the same, go to similar places on weekends etc except she has no work stress and gets to spend all her time taking her youngest to groups and activities etc. Also she now has that property indefinitely so she has housing security whereas if the SHTF and we couldn’t pay our mortgage then we’d lose the house. I do get it.

But at the same time I wouldn’t swap places because we will (hopefully) own our home in 25 years and we have options. We can move if we want to. We are less reliant on “the system”. When we have some spare cash we can save up more than £16k and nobody will check or care. We will have professional pensions (in theory, ha, who knows where that money will have gone by the time we retire). You have to think about the long game.

Maybe that is what women of child-bearing age feel that “the squeezed middle” really is - a family where both parents need to work full time to live a reasonably comfortable lifestyle but not luxurious by any means, and they have to miss out on time with their kids to do it.

Because the squeezed middle are the only ones that can realistically be taxed.

So they’re fed bullshit, and taxed.

Surely the focus needs to be on the mega rich, who are trying to get out of paying their tax bills? Not whether the next door neighbours, who receive UC, can afford to go on holiday.

https://www.thelondoneconomic.com/politics/lord-sugar-tried-to-dodge-186m-tax-payment-by-declaring-himself-a-non-uk-resident-356671/

But the ‘elite’ would rather we turn on each other because it keeps the focus away from them….

@Crochetgril23 I’m not arguing that in the immediate future you might be financially better off not working or working less, rather than work full time and pay childcare. But if your profession is anything like mine then if you choose to go down that route it’s going to be hard for you to pick up that salary again in future. When your kids are 5 and at school you won’t be paying £24k a year in childcare. But if you’re still earning £60k+ a year then you will have more disposable income again compared to if you were on benefits. It’s the childcare costs that kill you.

If you truly believe that the DM report entirely factually and are not at all biased and have no political leaning then im not going to be able to convince you otherwise in a short post on a forum. Google is your friend. Similarly most other papers have political leanings. I’m surprised you can be in a job that earns so well and have such little awareness of how the media works?

I can see why you would not vote labour given their recent policy announcements about childcare costs, if all you are concerned about is your immediate financial situation. Generally I would recommend voting labour over tories because the tories seem determined to dismantle public services through underfunding. Having nice stuff available for free for everyone is a good thing. Even if you don’t care about other people, making sure that other people have access to the basics of housing, healthcare, education etc makes your own life nicer as it means fewer homeless people around, less antisocial behaviour, less crime, lower unemployment.

In the Tory model, the stuff that is available for free is minimal and is shit. People with money go private. People earning less money get the shit versions, if they’re lucky enough to even get anything. Market forces are meant to then ensure that “people work harder to make a better life for themselves”. That’s what happens in America, and you can see how well that is going. I prefer a high tax system where there are lots of well funded public services. It means that some people will take the piss, but it’s a price I’m willing to pay for a safe society where people don’t have to live in poverty.