DfE data: Only HALF of required number of trainee secondary teachers in England recruited

[sunnydaytoday0]

Only half of the required number of trainee secondary school teachers in England have been recruited as the academic year gets under way, analysis shows. Ministers are on course to miss their recruitment targets by 48%.

The DfE said there were a record number of teachers in schools, up by 27,000 since 2010. The unions point out, however, that the number of pupils in state-funded schools in England has risen at almost double the rate of the teaching workforce.

https://www.theguardian.com/education/2023/sep/12/only-half-of-required-number-of-trainee-secondary-teachers-in-england-recruited

But hang on, those glossy soft-focus Get into Teaching adverts on TV show so many wonderfully happy and satisfied teachers, and classes fully of quiet, attentive students? And the government claims teachers are paid so well. Shouldn't training courses therefore be stuffed full of highly qualified graduates who want to do the job? I'm assuming teacher retention rates must be excellent at the moment that it explains why the government wouldn't need to be concerned about a huge crash in new bodies being recruited. Right?

They don’t manage out decent teachers.

Nothing like a non-teacher telling actual teachers that what they know happens isn't true.

Nothing like a non-teacher telling actual teachers about their own working conditions.

The sheer arrogance needed.

They don’t manage out decent teachers.

Absolute rubbish.

They don’t manage out decent teachers.
They absolutely do.

Perhaps if the government provided adequate resources and did not let the teaching profession down so much, it would be thought of as a career by more people.

As for secondary schools specifically, the lack of guidance re pupils who say they are trans places teachers in a difficult position regarding their jobs. A career is less attractive if you think you could lose your job or promotion because of a comment being taken the wrong way, when no malice is intended.

I really don't think that is a major reason for falling numbers of teacher training applicants.

As for secondary schools specifically, the lack of guidance re pupils who say they are trans places teachers in a difficult position regarding their jobs. A career is less attractive if you think you could lose your job or promotion because of a comment being taken the wrong way, when no malice is intended.

I think the impact that has on potential or actual teachers is pretty negligible, tbh.

I’ve just commented this on another thread. I gave up teaching before I barely started- the kids were great. The parents/staff room snipping/ paperwork was brutal. Now teach adults, 2-5 days WFH, more pay than I was teaching, and way less hours. Nothing would ever drag me back into a class room.

People don’t want to teach because it’s described as “brutal” snd the holidays are spent planning and marking. Marking I would query

You would query marking in the holidays?

Lol. Most mock exams are taken just before a big set of holidays (usually Christmas and Easter) precisely because people can then spend their holidays marking.

I am a very efficient and organised person. I still have to work evenings, holidays and weekends, because that's just the nature of the job.

Having said that, I don't lift a finger over the summer holidays, one week over Christmas and the first week of Easter. But school get plenty of extra working hours out of me, amounting to double of what I'm paid for. Because when you're as expensive as me, you need them to really want you to stay.

So “expensive” equals well paid? Yes of course they want experienced good teachers to stay and you’ve not been managed out. Possibly because you cannot be replaced? Plus because you are good. You should not work on marking in the summer holidays. Or anything else much. I agree and many teachers manage this in exchange for longer days in term time. Any school managing good experienced teachers out now is mad! Note my use of “good”. Some might need help to stay but most are fine these days.

It’s interesting how people don’t accept that being around miserable, complaining and striking staff puts new recruits off. It’s negative and to be avoided. Poor slts is another barrier to recruitment. Governors and slt (who were teachers) not understanding how to get the best out of people re job design and workplace culture is a huge issue. Maybe some slts should not be ex teachers at all? Perhaps others have a greater understanding of managing staff? Just floating that!

So “expensive” equals well paid? Yes of course they want experienced good teachers to stay

You've literally no idea. And yet you keep pontificating. Why is that?

It's interesting how some people seem to suggest that talking about poor working conditions is the issue that affects recruitment rather than the actual poor working conditions.

Do we have Michael Gove on the thread?

A state school tried to manage me out just before I became Head of English at an independent school. They absolutely do manage out good, experienced teachers because of cost.

And incidentally, - striking? Yes, there have been strikes recently. In a 35 year career they were only the 3rd set. Teachers don’t strike much at all.
they’re also relentlessly positive in the classroom as that’s the only way to get anywhere, so students don’t see the downsides so much.
You are really pretty ignorant about the whole set up, aren’t you @TizerorFizz ?

Sadly I'm not surprised.

I love teaching. I love leading my department. I do absolutely everything I can to keep workload manageable for my team, while also ensuring that we give the kids the best we possibly can.

My school serves a very disadvantaged cohort and most of our kids are genuinely lovely and want to do well.

All that said, as much as I love the job, it is hard work both physically and mentally. Last night, I could cheerfully have gone to bed at 8pm and couldn't find the energy to have a proper conversation.

Some schools are extremely challenging in terms of pupil behaviour and insane workload (my last one almost broke me).

I can absolutely see why people are put off.

They don’t manage out decent teachers
They absolutely do!
Every teacher I know can recall stories of colleagues they know who were treated appallingly and managed out, especially when those colleagues were experienced female staff in their 40s and 50s on UPS and working part time.

Yep.

In my 20+ years of parenting there have been at least 6 strikes that I can remember off hand and that's without considering the universities.

Not national ones there haven’t. And of course we aren’t counting universities as that’s not what this is about. I’ve been teaching since 1983. I went on strike early in my career, then again in the early 2000s. I missed a national strike while I worked in an independent school (meaning we weren’t involved as the matter was one in the control of the school) and again this last school year. I can assure you I have been on strike every time my union has voted for strike action.

@Fiiiish I’ve done a little research.
There was a strike in 1987, then one in 2008.
The next one I can find is 2014 (the one I missed).
Then the 2023 ones.
Are you perhaps counting individual strike days as different actions?

news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/education/7367471
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-26729786

They do manage out expensive and talented teachers. They often replace them with cover supervisors who aren’t as talented but are definitely cheaper. It might sound “mad” but they need to balance the books somehow. Employing non qualified teachers makes sense financially and you can’t rub a magic lamp for extra cash. It’s not that hard to fathom why this happens. No one wins.

We all went on strike in 2011, that was the big joint union Gove one. Think the others were NUT only? (NEU for latest).

That sounds about right noble. I've never been an NUT member and can count on one hand the number of times I've been on strike.

Don’t forget, recruitment is only half the story. Retention has always been an issue.

Add to that the number of teachers choosing to work part time, sprinkle in the number of teachers on maternity leave ( it’s a profession where youngish fertile women predominate and teachers maternity leave entitlement is a generous one) , and I think we are sailing into a perfect storm.

The NHS is a public service that is also going downhill. Recruitment and retention issues. I work in it and am horrified by what I see.

What I don’t see is this ‘managing out’ of expensive experienced staff. I am horrified this goes on in teaching. (Genuinely shit staff in my trust are hard to get rid of). Talk about shooting yourself in the foot 😐

It’s interesting that this seems to be isolated in teaching. Heads have a small set budget and need eg 12 teachers…it’s been far cheaper to hire a newly qualified teacher than one on UPS. (There is less different now they’ve flattened the pay scale, tbh.)

Is the structure different within an NHS ward/department where you have to have some Band 3, some 4, some 5 etc?