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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

Mandatory subjects until 18 a terrible idea

143 replies

Mysteriousflo · 21/09/2023 20:29

Thinking back to my school years, a key part of the excitement of going to sixth form was the ability to choose what I wanted to study.

I chose based on what I enjoyed and what would help me into the degree I wanted.

Focusing on a handful of key subjects was something that suited me and, if it didn’t, I could’ve made the choice to do the IB.

I believe having that choice was a key part of my success in my exams which set me up for my degree, career and where I am now professionally.

Why oh why does Sunak think mandating English and maths until 18 is a good idea?

It feels really regressive and like a terrible idea to me - AIBU?

Have I got this totally wrong and actually it’s a big vote winner?!

OP posts:
MadamWhiteleigh · 21/09/2023 20:30

Agree. We place too much value on maths and English, both of which can be really hard if you’re not that way inclined.

NuffSaidSam · 21/09/2023 20:34

I think studying Maths and English alongside your A Level/further education choices is a good idea as long as it doesn't mean further testing. I think everyone at 6th form/college having a once weekly class in Maths and English would be good. Numeracy and literacy is very important.

Anonymouseposter · 21/09/2023 20:38

It really won’t suit some people who have very strong strengths and weaknesses and are ready to specialise. I know a couple of people who had good arts A levels but were still struggling to pass GCSE maths so they could teach. I wouldn’t have minded being more of an all rounder, not excelling at anything but moderately good at most subjects. I think it’s silly to make subjects mandatory after 16.

MintJulia · 21/09/2023 20:41

My DS can't wait to give up English. He's perfectly literate, reads endlessly, but finds the dissection of texts takes the joy out of reading.

He'll get a 5 at English GCSE, but 8s & 9s in maths and three sciences, which he'll take for a'level.

Making him study English for another two years would just irritate him.

CalistoNoSolo · 21/09/2023 20:42

MadamWhiteleigh · 21/09/2023 20:30

Agree. We place too much value on maths and English, both of which can be really hard if you’re not that way inclined.

Maths and English are cornerstones to living a productive life. They are the most important aspects of education. I think it's far more relevant to ask why so many students get to 16 without having a good grasp of both subjects.

MrsTerryPratchett · 21/09/2023 20:47

NuffSaidSam · 21/09/2023 20:34

I think studying Maths and English alongside your A Level/further education choices is a good idea as long as it doesn't mean further testing. I think everyone at 6th form/college having a once weekly class in Maths and English would be good. Numeracy and literacy is very important.

This. An extra couple of years of targeted lessons could make the difference for some people. I regularly receive emails and written notes as part of my job from people whose English is virtually incomprehensible. These are people who need support, legal advice, to advocate for themselves. And can't, because their English is so poor.

However, it needs to be targeted for individual learners' individual issues. No point if not.

OuiRagamuffin · 21/09/2023 20:53

Totally agree, he should be forced to do The LeavingvCert (irish system).

That might cure him. By 16/17 most people need to be able to let go of subjects they're not good at. My son will have to pass Spanish even though the language part of his brain isn't wired to learn languages. He didn't speak til he was almost 4, he said "out mine room" do his first word was a sentence. At four. And yet, he has to do Spanish, French or German.

I had the opposite struggle, I loved languages and struggled to scrape a pass in maths.

Caulifloweristraditional · 21/09/2023 20:53

I think this is a great idea, brains do not fully develop until at least 25. Subject choices made at 16 may not always align with a chosen career path later on and studying an array of subjects will in my opinion result in a better rounded education and more options should a student change their mind.

Prescottdanni123 · 21/09/2023 20:55

I agree with you.

Tbh, I find GCSEs too strictly regimented. Maths, English and Science mandatory until 16 I understand but nowadays, kids are pushed to choose one language and either history or geography at the school I work at.

mbosnz · 21/09/2023 20:58

Is this to be in all schools, or will private schools be exempt?

Shinyandnew1 · 21/09/2023 20:59

It’s a terrible idea and there aren’t enough teachers to carry it out anyway.

Has he made some sort of announcement been made about it today?

mellongoose · 21/09/2023 21:09

I think it's a great idea. Similar to the international standard of baccalaureate. If it's good enough for children overseas, why not here 🤷‍♀️

lookingforMolly · 21/09/2023 21:13

I struggled with gcse Maths & did retakes in sixth form to get a C.
But my gcse class had been constantly disrupted by other pupils & the teacher, a young woman, had spent a lot of class time flirting with one of the boys so it wasn't surprising that I had to retake it.

I loved gcse English so I took A Level English Literature.. what a mistake. The lengths to which every sentence was dissected made the subject sooo boring and I soon lost interest.

In fact staying at school convinced me that I really wanted to get a job and not do further study at that time!! Maybe that's Rishi's secret aim, to either reduce uni intakes by making kids hate sixth form or to reduce the population by killing all the sixth formers with boredom!!

Libertass · 21/09/2023 21:13

I would have absolutely hated that. After struggling to get a decent grade in my O level English Lit, the thought of having to analyse yet more bloody boring poems & write a load of pretentious, subjective bollocks about metre & metaphor etc would have been incredibly depressing.

Maths & Physics problems which have one objectively correct answer and which, providing I show my working, the examiner has to award full marks are much more my thing. When I walked out of my A level Physics exam, I knew the A was in the bag, and I could never say that about an English exam.

Original poster
Mysteriousflo · 21/09/2023 21:14

Times article on it today. Plans being drawn up for a British baccalaureate to replace the A-Level system.

OP posts:
lookingforMolly · 21/09/2023 21:15

Also if you're studying a vocational subject on day release such as hairdressing or bricklaying would you still be forced to do maths and English as an older teenager?? Even if you're not academic?

Hotsaucegal · 21/09/2023 21:21

I did the European baccalaureate which is similar to IB. There are pros and cons to both systems but I love the fact I was exposed to lots of different disciplines. i felt more well rounded than many of my peers at university who came from an A level system.

sleepyscientist · 21/09/2023 21:25

I passed GCSE maths at 13 with an A* and Alevels maths at 16 with a A. In total I have 4 Alevels and an AS in the sciences and maths. Followed by a BSc and multiple post graduate qualifications. Yet I barely scrapper a C at GCSE English!

Really maths and English should be split into functional groups and academic available regardless of secondary school set.

Mumof2teens79 · 21/09/2023 21:33

It's not about mandating a level English and maths
It's about setting a minimum standard in both. If you're in education anyway, and have room to improve, you should be helped to improve.

caringcarer · 21/09/2023 21:34

My Foster son has learning disabilities and developmental delay. At his special school he wasn't given opportunities to do more than 2 GCSE's. Last year he went to college and passed a BTEC Sport Level 2 worth 4 GCSE's and sat GCSE Maths and passed at level 4 also he did Functional Skills level 1 English. I'm very grateful he got the chance to sit the GCSE Maths alongside his BTEC course and this year he is doing the GCSE English. If it wasn't mandatory the college might not have offered him these opportunities. I think it is very important all children become proficient in Maths and English. I'm in favour of all children who don't have them trying to gain them alongside their other courses. It will be hard for them to get a job without them.

FallingAutumnLeaf · 21/09/2023 21:45

Seeing the level of maths some adults don't have, and I assume similar in English, I think something needs to change.
But, if 13 years of schooling hasn't managed it, 2 more years of the same isn't going to change very much.
There needs to be a fundamental change, younger than 16, so every one can leave school able to read the letter that arrived in the post, write a response to it, and work out if their bill is correct. That might not be a GCSE for everyone. Not everyone needs to calculate the length of a side of a triangle. Not everyone needs to identify what Shakespeare was thinking when he wrote the third act of Macbeth.

Hotsaucegal · 21/09/2023 22:22

FallingAutumnLeaf · 21/09/2023 21:45

Seeing the level of maths some adults don't have, and I assume similar in English, I think something needs to change.
But, if 13 years of schooling hasn't managed it, 2 more years of the same isn't going to change very much.
There needs to be a fundamental change, younger than 16, so every one can leave school able to read the letter that arrived in the post, write a response to it, and work out if their bill is correct. That might not be a GCSE for everyone. Not everyone needs to calculate the length of a side of a triangle. Not everyone needs to identify what Shakespeare was thinking when he wrote the third act of Macbeth.

This is also a good point. Mandatory Maths and English should perhaps be aimed at more practical skills. Media literacy and writing letters/cvs/presentations. Meanwhile maths could be towards understanding taxes, bills, budgeting…

Clymene · 21/09/2023 22:30

I totally agree. It's bloody miserable studying stuff you're not interested in.

jgw1 · 21/09/2023 22:32

Mysteriousflo · 21/09/2023 20:29

Thinking back to my school years, a key part of the excitement of going to sixth form was the ability to choose what I wanted to study.

I chose based on what I enjoyed and what would help me into the degree I wanted.

Focusing on a handful of key subjects was something that suited me and, if it didn’t, I could’ve made the choice to do the IB.

I believe having that choice was a key part of my success in my exams which set me up for my degree, career and where I am now professionally.

Why oh why does Sunak think mandating English and maths until 18 is a good idea?

It feels really regressive and like a terrible idea to me - AIBU?

Have I got this totally wrong and actually it’s a big vote winner?!

The reason Sunak wants everyone to study maths until 18 is so that they can understand that by rebuilding 50 schools a year the government is planning to rep,ace each school by the year 2458.

Philandbill · 21/09/2023 22:34

Where will the extra maths teachers that this will need come from? There's already a shortage of maths teachers.

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