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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To raise this to my manager?

34 replies

SausageSpaghetti · 21/09/2023 20:10

I'd be interested to hear your thoughts and please feel free to tell me if I'm being unreasonable/dramatic.

I work in house recruitment for a large company (around 70 sites across the country). I recently filled a role and the candidate was due to start next week. Contract etc already signed. It transpired that the general manager wasn't aware that we'd recruited someone as the team hadn't communicated this to him and he wasn't on the approval chain on our online system. I can only assume this was because he's new and hadn't been set up on the system yet, however the job offer was approved by his manager a couple of weeks ago. This was just a standard replacement, not an additional hire so completely within the budget.

An email was sent to everyone by the GM yesterday requesting that the position be put on hold whilst he looked into things, but when I pointed out that the candidate had already signed his contract, he responded and agreed that he could start but said that we needed to push his start date back to the following week. No reason given as to why he couldn't start on the original date. I knew this would be an issue as the candidate had already handed his notice in at his current job and arranged his end date to work around us. I emailed the manager (a different manager from the same site) who interviewed and offered him the job asking him to call the candidate and discuss this with him, but he refused and said that he hadn't been involved in the decision making process and was absolutely baffled by the entire situation. The chicken shit just didn't want to make the call!!!

I rang him as nobody else was going to and profusely apologised for the mix up. He seemed ok, although disappointed and maybe a bit worried but agreed to the change (didn't really have a choice and I imagine he didn't want to kick up a fuss with it being a new job), but I think it has caused him problems as he's leaving his current job this week and was coming straight to us. Obviously he won't be paid for next week now. I don't know what his circumstances are but I imagine losing a weeks pay will be terrible for him, as it would for most people, myself included. AIBU to be annoyed and upset, on the candidates behalf? I won't lie, I logged off this evening and burst into tears. I don't know why it's upset me so much and perhaps I'm being dramatic, but I honestly think their out of line for what they've done, the GM in particular. He's not spared a thought for the candidate at all or the impact it could have him on financially. I know it's only a week, but it's still a lot of money and there was no reason as to why he couldn't start next week as planned. He's not even the one training him etc. I honestly just think he was being awkward for the sake of it.

Legally, I have no idea if we were even allowed to do that given contracts had already been signed but hr were ccd into all the emails and didn't say anything. Obviously it's done now but I am still really annoyed about it and a part of me thinks I should say something to my manager just so it doesn't happen again. I'm worried though as I'm currently on a ftc contract (possibly being made permanent but decision hasn't been made yet) and I'm worried if I raise it, they might think I'm a trouble maker and not keep me on. My manager is lovely btw and very supportive but I'm not sure about hr and the GM's of these sites do seem to get away with absolute murder. From a recruitment point of view, it's absolutely pathetic as we really struggle to recruit and when we do, things like this happen.

AIBU?

OP posts:
Original poster
SausageSpaghetti · 21/09/2023 20:12

I meant to say that the candidate did have a choice but probably didn't want to kick up a fuss with it being a new job **

OP posts:
Whataretheodds · 21/09/2023 20:17

Absolutely raise it. The organisation is presumably at risk of breach of contract.

I had a scenario where we weren't ready to have someone start (ie come into the office and start work) on their agreed start date because of an internal administration error, but I made sure we paid her as planned: it wasn't her fault.

AlwaysPrettyOnTheInside · 21/09/2023 20:23

Can you advocate for the employee to be paid for that week?

I expect the GM just threw his toys out the pram because he wasn't involved or told.

namechangnancy · 21/09/2023 20:25

Have you ever looked at askamanger.com she answers these type of questions she's based on America but often speaks a lot of sense.

You know I say as someone who has full knowledge of how tricky a position this would put you in but honestly I would be completely honest with the candidate. Because if this company is willing to go back on a signed contract as a new persons started and thrown toys out the pram and now contacted your area manger to pull the breaks on his starting, it's a massive red flag and the candidate deserves to know because it might be that either they walk into a shot storm and the company fires them on their probationary period or that the company drags this person around for a few weeks and just ignores their calls and this person loses not just a weeks income but many months.

I don't know if you can tip this person off privately. But from a ethical and human standpoint- I would give them a subtle head up (nothing in writing or from company devices).

The fact hr hasn't put a cabosh on this - would really fucking worry me along with the wheedle hiring manager without a backbone. Clearly people not willing to treat people like humans.

I hope there's some legal recourse for this but it's doubtful.

I had this situation at a previous work and I was quite high up and the hiring manager in this scenario- and I called the candidate myself and looped the candidate in. The new manager was fuming, but he soon learnt I didn't give a fig about him. Nasty piece of work he turned out to be.

As a human I would loop that person in because ethically speaking for a company to do this to a new recruit it's a bad sign of worst

GrannyAchingsShepherdsHut · 21/09/2023 20:45

I don't think the other manager was chicken shit - I think they were completely correct not to contact the new starter. I understand you were in a difficult position but I think you should have responded to GM pointing out, again, that the contract was signed and that it specified a start date.

It sounds like the GM just wanted to throw their weight around. New starter shouldn't have to bear the brunt of that.

I would have also advised GM that the job offer was authorised by GM manager, so GM should raise any queries about the process and not being notified with their own manager.

I feel so sorry - as you do! - for this poor person missing a weeks pay. I think you should talk to HR about the company being in breach of contract if this person is not paid, and how to arrange for them to receive normal wages for that week.

Original poster
SausageSpaghetti · 21/09/2023 20:55

@GrannyAchingsShepherdsHut I can see where you're coming from and perhaps chicken shit was the wrong word to use. I just felt so frustrated that I was the one having to deal with it all and pick up the pieces. We were all copied into the email and I was the only one responding to the GM. I'm also fairly new and in all honestly I didn't feel confident in going up against him as I'm basically an entry level employee. I didn't think it was my place to challenge him and tell him that he was in breach of the contract. I'm annoyed that hr didn't intervene tbh. I do think I should speak to my manager in the morning about it.

OP posts:
MuggleMe · 21/09/2023 21:00

Imo as a non hr person I'd say although he hasn't started he still needs to be paid from the contract start date.

MajesticWhine · 21/09/2023 21:06

You're not being unreasonable at all. You were put in a horrible position. I would escalate it to make sure there is never a repeat.

Discwriter · 21/09/2023 21:08

It's a very frustrating situation OP, I can see why you would react so strongly. Youve done your job so well to have the rest react as badly. Perhaps you feel it reflects on you? The GM is wrong. If the contracts are signed with a specific start date, the candidate might assume they would be paid from that date even if they dont work (unless it's zero hr!) So I would raise this with HR if I were you. HR is very bad at my place though and tend to not do much unless they are under direct threat. I also wouldnt like to work for the GM.

Discwriter · 21/09/2023 21:11

I never answer the question - YANBU, raise it with your manager!

FOJN · 21/09/2023 21:13

I don't understand why you didn't contact HR directly to discuss it and left them to take it up with the GM.

The contract has been signed so either the new recruit needs to start work on the date agreed or be paid from that date.

Original poster
SausageSpaghetti · 21/09/2023 21:14

I'm actually really worried now that I've made things worse by contacting the candidate. I shouldn't have backed down, but I just wanted to let him know as soon as possible what was going on as he was due to start in 4 days time and obviously nobody else was going to call him. I'll probably get into trouble now too.

OP posts:
Dazedandconfused10 · 21/09/2023 21:16

The contract hasn't started so I don't think it's been breached. But you need to frame your argument around poor candidate experience. That's what this falls down to. Poor process and poor candidate experience.

The new starters manager should have called to explain the delay, but delays happen and start dates get moved.

Original poster
SausageSpaghetti · 21/09/2023 21:16

I didn't contact them because they were copied into all the emails and could see what was going on and didn't intervene. I didn't realise how awful it was until after I'd contacted the candidate @FOJN

My priority was letting him know as soon as possible what was going on as nobody else was going to.

OP posts:
andweallsingalong · 21/09/2023 21:16

I think you were wrong to ignore your instincts not to call the candidate and should have instead gone to your manager to step in and handle the situation. I think you now need to go to your manager and explain that you have potentially breached a written contract and acted unethically. The GM is not your direct boss and his boss doesn't appear to have been on board so I'm not sure why you obeyed his instruction.

Original poster
SausageSpaghetti · 21/09/2023 21:20

@andweallsingalong the GM's boss was the one who approved the job offer.

OP posts:
andweallsingalong · 21/09/2023 21:24

Exactly @SausageSpaghetti so if he refused to ring the candidate for me that's a massive heads up that you needed to check with your manager before making the call...

Original poster
SausageSpaghetti · 21/09/2023 21:28

Sorry think I have confused things. So there are 3 managers in total -

Manager 1 - the one who interviewed and offered him the job. He was the one who wouldn't call the candidate as he wasn't involved in the decision making process.

Manager 2 - The new GM who put the job on hold and then pushed the start date back.

Manager 3 - The GM's manager who approved the job offer 2 weeks ago.

Not that it really matters now anyway. It's basically a massive shit show and too many people involved so things have got messy.

OP posts:
GrannyAchingsShepherdsHut · 21/09/2023 21:38

I agree with you OP that you should speak to your supportive manager asap. They sound reasonable - unlike the bollock swinging GM...

Hindsight is a wonderful thing, but I think the best thing to have done would have been to refer it all to manager 3.

I'd also bear in mind that it's not impossible that the new starter hasn't panicked and arranged to delay their leaving date as a result of your call. So if it's decided the original start date can be reinstated, then the company should offer not insist. Otherwise they risk the candidate running for the hills - I would!

Original poster
SausageSpaghetti · 21/09/2023 21:54

@GrannyAchingsShepherdsHut yes that's true I hadn't though of that. Obviously I don't want him to think we're idiots, well, I'm sure he already does tbh. I think I'll just call my manager in the morning and explain everything. I am quite anxious now as I'm sure the blame will be left with me as I made the call, but I was honestly just trying to help the candidate and give him the heads up as soon as possible.

OP posts:
PawsAndReflection · 21/09/2023 21:59

Are they salaried? Assume so. If that's the case then the company should be paying them from the date the contract stipulates.

FOJN · 21/09/2023 22:07

My priority was letting him know as soon as possible what was going on as nobody else was going to.

My point was that you may not needed to have called the candidate if the manager throwing his weight around had been put back in his box by someone who understood employment law. You simply cannot unilaterally change the terms of a contract after it has been signed.

Original poster
SausageSpaghetti · 21/09/2023 22:11

@PawsAndReflection yes they are salaried.

@FOJN yes you're right I see that now and wish I'd just rang hr. I guess because they were copied into the emails and hadn't intervened I just thought they were ok with it. My mistake.

OP posts:
Fightyouforthatpie · 21/09/2023 22:19

Well that sounds like a shit organisation to work for.

OhcantthInkofaname · 21/09/2023 22:36

Did you inform the GM's manager what the GM said? He/she had a right to know.

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