To thing school need to radically rethink their offer

[BlooDeBloop]

In lockdown everyone understood that schooling was optional. Everyone understood that missing a day or week didn't matter in the grand scheme of things

During lockdown students learned that rules could be arbitrary and not make sense

Lockdown taught parents that school was critical as childcare to enable them to work

Since then, kids are back in school. They are challenging the rules on an unprecedented scale. Parents are laughing at the SLT. Kids are cheering when they clowns are removed from class. The kids know there is no real punishment, no real consequence for deliberately, chronically disruptive behaviour.

Teachers are breaking down and leaving in droves, more than ever before. Leaving young, inexperienced colleagues in the trenches.

After having to educate their own children parents understand that Shakespeare, French, geography and more have no modern relevance in the UK. The curricula are unimaginative and disconnected from the future world of work. There is no longer home support for the suck it up attitude with which kids were once sent to school.

Once upon a time there was an understanding that the kids would go to school, get an education, leave to pursue training or higher education. Today, that understanding has broken down. Under the scrutiny and transparency that SM provides, we collectively understand this is not true. Schools are failing, not through lack of care or competency but a lack of relevance. Further, the social mores that governed acceptable behaviour have softened to such a degree a good 10% of every state secondary class will seek to destroy the locus of power in the room (teacher, SLT, whoever). To compound the issue, students are all seeing for themselves on SM how to disrupt and then go about emulating their heros.

This is a cluster fuck of gigantic proportions.

AIBU in thinking that there needs to be a big scale conversation (revolution!) around what schools offer in this new world? For starters, moving with the times to offer skills that are actually needed and valued in the workforce and in further ed (e.g. IT at all levels, from typing to programming, and not shoved into one hour a week). Real alternative curricula for non academic kids (let's not pretend these kids need Chaucer in their lives).

And when students are persistently disruptive over a long period of time, borderline encouraged by their parents, they should be sent home. Permanently. To be educated (or not) by their parents. That would sort out 90% of poor behaviour overnight.

Ahhhh. That feels better 😁. Thank you for reading if you got this far.

i have no objection on banning trainers, and i say that as a parent who's child was forced to wear them because he couldn't tie laces, and velcro plain black trainer/shoes were the allowed compromise (disabilities)

However, i do think my child school ban on boots is pointless and unnecessarily restrictive. A smart black boot looks just as good, and is actually BETTER for kids feet/ankles than a shoe.

Pleased to hear it!

Did you join mumsnet minutes after the op started this thread, just in order to stick up for her amongst the sea of posters disagreeing with her?

Do you usually enjoy a pile-on? Is this how you normally get your kicks? You have added very little to this debate other than attempting to insult the OP, can't you discuss the points she makes or is there no fun in that?

Another reason to drive Gove out of office and into the Thames. British exceptionalism is a poor basis for planning a curriculum.

Im sorry that your 'bookish' child dislikes Shakespeare and probably also loathes chaucer if they're ever exposed to it, however I was the bookish child, and i loved both, and absolutely thrived on the analysis of the texts, and how clever the writers were. I was fascinated by the way they played with words and pushed the boundaries of the language.

I'm a published poet, and an avid reader still, i still have my A level Shakespeare Texts, and a copy of chaucers canterbury tales in my library with all my notes in.

What one 'bookish' person despises, is the lifeblood of another.

Perhaps your child should stop viewing them as old and stuffy, and instead learn to delight in the clever way they play with language.

Sock puppet ring is against talk guidelines
but no need to report seeing as you’re not offering anything of use or any controversy as @RebelHarry

The OP’s “bookish” child doesn’t enjoy

therefore OP extrapolates that it’s not relevant

what hope is there is your parent thinks along those lines

I always feel sad when I hear of a child not liking Shakespeare. It happens rarely, though. Most of my friends at school adored Shakespeare and my child's primary school class were very excited performing some in year 5.

Please report me - I dare you.

No need

under @RebelHarry you aren’t posting anything controversial whatsoever

Or offensive or interesting

just popping up to stick up for the OP minutes after she started the thread

no biggie

Well, I'd say that in the age of AI we especially need poets, musicians, artists, athletes, dancers as well as crafts people. We need to educate our young people to develop critical thinking skills to either feed the AI or keep AI in check, we need creative scientists who are trained in ethics and* *ethicists, philosophers, and people who deeply understand literature and critically examine history.

What is this story about baccalaureate replacing a levels?? Is this going to happen?

Please report. Then you'll find out if they really are a sock puppet!

I went to bed last night thinking why so large a majority of the country apparently love Shakespeare 🤔🤔. Of course, the answer is that on MN if you say 'Shakespeare should be banned' everyone will claim undying love etc. If you say 'Shakespeare should be essential teaching for all from age of 8' then the whole thread will be full of how they hated the bard etc

If I had one wish for the posters who clearly hate all I've written it is that they challenge themselves to think more broadly than their own experiences of education. They might perhaps realise that what worked for them isn't a magic formula for what will work for this generation.

I say that as a highly literate A grade student educated in a school that had recently changed from a secondary modern in WC urban city. I was that child reading Hardy in the library every lunch time who as an adult reads and watches Shakespeare plays. I speak fluent French, love other cultures and spend my time creating art (when I'm not despairing about my lack of career success 😊). I love art and STEM. I love academia.

But you know, not all kids are like me.

went to bed last night thinking why so large a majority of the country apparently love Shakespeare 🤔🤔.

😂

I love that you think this is surprising. And quite telling!

when I'm not despairing about my lack of career success
just goes to show how important “softer” skills are given your incredible school history 😂

who as an adult reads and watches Shakespeare plays. I

oh come now OP!

Surprising, I should have been clearer, given my lived experience. For example, the empty cinema theatre when they screen Shakespeare plays. Prima facie was packed! When I spoke with the plumber whose child is also at secondary - for people like this it's the elites shoving crap down their throats. I know that Shakespeare is deeply unpopular. That may not be your experience.

My personal experience of school is hardly relevant (I hated it, the school was a dumping ground for expelled students, I felt overlooked and unnurtured, and if I learned any social skill it was to develop a hard shell). I only spoke of it because so many other posters wanted to make out that I hate culture, or that my child is a monster and I'm making excuses for him, or I have a personal animosity for Shakespeare or French. I don't.

Well my son (who was then 7-8) watched Shakespeare plays and loved them during lock down.

He did Macbeth in his last year of primary and loved it (possibly because of the ghost😃).

Whats not to like about Shakespeare? Why do you think something written 400 years ago is still so popular (clue MN has not been around all that time).

Cant wait to see Macbeth in Stratford next month.

maybe you’re asking the wrong question - why don’t all kids love learning? It’s literally what they’re designed to do. It’s our job as parents to make them curious about everything, teach them to take every opportunity they can.

You seem to be contemplating the end of academia. Children will find things exciting that we show them are exciting.

If the tenor of this thread is to believed

• there is no training and recruitment crisis in teaching
• there are no growing attendance issues or rising homeschooling rates
• there is no chronic behaviour problem in schools
• there is no problem with the curriculum today, students are learning relevant and inspiring topics in all areas adequately preparing them for what they need to go into the world of work/HE

You all may be right. I hope so.

“The elites” 🙄

Op’s posts reads like a first year GCSE C grade student

Yeah, @Youspoilus or a very junior intern who's been tasked to sass out opinions of mums on MN. They always do underestimate us. 😝

Oh yeah, because plumbers and their offspring are incapable of enjoying the same thing the “elites” can. My Dad was a lorry driver, I love Shakespeare, Blake, Poe. History is my love. Admittedly I prefer ancient languages to French. Im currently learning ancient Hebrew, then will move on to Greek probably. Maybe I should have stuck to typing aspiring to be a secretary.

My brother is in a trade (carpentry) but likes quantum physics. He’s more of a modern mythology lover, Tolkien and Lovecraft. His favourite subject at school was Classics (unfortunately they stopped teaching that). Maybe he should have only been allowed in the technology block???

Your ideas are not about helping anyone, they seem to be about keeping the none-elites in their place.

Maybe we need to concentrate on seeing learning as important and cool.

OP, is your essay question:

Discuss the evidence and implications surrounding the assertion that there is a training and recruitment crisis in the teaching profession. Explore the factors contributing to this crisis and its potential impact on the quality of education.

or is it

Critically assess the argument that there is a problem with the curriculum in modern education. Explore whether students are learning relevant and inspiring topics in all subject areas, and discuss how well the current curriculum prepares them for the demands of the workforce and higher education.

? mhm?