To not feel sorry for landlords?

[CuriouslyMinded]

Honestly, so many people seem to have Buy To Let mortgages that they can't really afford and I can't help but think that if the interest rates are making life that difficult that they're struggling to feed their kids or whatever the latest headline is, then they should just sell their extra properties. There are first time buyers are desperate to get on the ladder for one thing, and also tenants don't deserve to have their rent increased by cash strapped landlords, and no one really needs to own more than one home. It's just so greedy. I don't feel sorry for them at all. I do appreciate that tenants need somewhere to live and not everyone can afford to buy, but part of the reason it is so difficult to buy a home is because so many people have overstretched themselves to own multiple properties that they don't even take care of half the time. The whole system is flawed and awful. Rant over!

I'm guessing you're public sector and have a defined benefit pension. For everyone else, a stock market crash also equals a loss of private pension.

@CharSiu but not all of them. Some want the choice of property, not just where the council choose to shove them after ages on waiting lists.

Yes, but I didn’t move out because it was unsafe, and neither did the 90% of owner occupants who still live there. We found out after we moved and went to sell it and couldn’t, so let it out to avoid bankruptcy.

My tenants, who pay less than I pay on the mortgage + service charge (yes, this is a loss making venture for me - and one without any prospect of increase in capital value) were happy to move in knowing the issues. I’d happily sell it to them too if they wanted to get on the property ladder, I’m not hogging the property, but they don’t want to buy it even once it’s remediated as it’s 1) more expensive than renting and 2) a city centre apartment that’s great for while they’re young but want to settle down in a house as their next move.

Not all landlords are landlords out of choice though. Given interest rates and the mess that is the housing market, very little is selling and many people are left with no choice but to rent out properties they'd rather get rid of. For instance, we tried to sell my husband's Central London flat as it's too small for us and we are keen to buy in the suburbs, but despite dropping it to way below market value, it would not sell. So we are landlords now. Lucky us!

It’s complicated but not necessarily. For example the issues in Scotland have deterred people from renting properties they don’t live in (eg because they live elsewhere for work) and they’re just leaving them empty. So punitive landlord laws do stop property being used in the most efficient way.

of course there has to be a balance of rights between the parties but no evictions ever isn’t it.

“The irony is that soon it won’t be a small time landlords with one or two properties people will be renting from, It’ll be faceless hedge funds.

I agree. Do people really think that forcing smaller landlords to sell will somehow magically sort out our housing problem? It won’t. It’s making it worse. Rental stock will just be bought up by a tiny group of larger companies or organisations. A cartel if you like. So what would the incentive be for them to reduce rents when there is a supply and demand problem?

We still need rental properties for students, because young people may not have the deposit to buy, affordability criteria, short term employment contracts etc
Successive governments haven’t built anywhere near enough social housing, so if you are looking for someone to blame, maybe start there.

Oh FFS this old chestnut again! 🙄 I wondered how long it would be before someone who is bitter and angry that they don't have social housing, would come out with this predictable and tired piece of guff.

Where on earth are these people who you intend on booting out of their social housing supposed to go? Do you want THEM to have to pay £900-£1100 a month for a little cramped 1-bed flat, while you and your kids (or your daughter and kids - or whoever you believe DESERVES IT MORE) has their 'large 4-bed house?'

If YOU are given their house, will YOU give it up in 15 years time when YOUR kids have left? Will you heck as like!

We need MORE SOCIAL HOUSING, not to throw people out who are in it. This is the most ridiculous thing anyone says on here, genuinely. On every single thread about renters, homeowners, and social housing, someone comes along and says 'waahhh !!! It's SO not fair people have social housing for life!'

Well it is actually. Just because YOU don't have it doesn't mean others should give it up. The vast majority of people in social housing would not be able to get a mortgage or afford their own repairs, or afford private rent. Many are elderly, disabled, and single parent families, and some people on a flat in their own.

Their life isn't laden with riches beyond their wildest dreams, but they are coping. If we were to boot them out on the streets, (as people like YOU would like to do,) they would NOT be able to cope, and would go under financially... And as I said, where the fuck are they meant to go?

Very VERY few people in social housing are on loads of money, and they never have been, and never will be. They wouldn't have been allocated it in the first place if that was the case! You have to be on low income to qualify for a social housing property! (Total household income £25,000 around where I live!)

I know someone will come on and tell me about Dave and Diane who live down the road who have a new car each, and a holiday abroad every 3 months, 'even though they're in a council house,' but this type of example is few and far between. Most people in social housing are getting by at best, not loaded! Most will have a car 7-10 years old or older.

I don't necessarily think it's great that someone is occupying a 4 bed house when they are there alone, but this is their HOME, they would have occupied it with children for 30-40 years or more, and will very likely have grandchildren there/be looking after grandchildren, and they won't be there for much longer, because of their age!

Resenting someone staying in the home they have raised their family in, and spent their whole life and possibly 40-50+ years of marriage in, and want to die happy in, (and wanting them throwing out on the streets so YOU can have their house,) is really quite a despicable attitude.

My work colleague's great aunt is in a 4 bed house, and she has only been alone in it for 3 or 4 years (had 3+ people there for 40 years prior to that,) and her younger family members are mithering her to give it up. But she says until they offer her a nice bungalow, close to where she lives now, with the same lifelong tenancy, they can fuck off. Too right too. The nice bungalows in her area are like gold dust, so she won't be moving any time soon.

Another lady I know is in a 3 bed home alone after losing her husband of 55 years last summer. She won't budge an inch, ever, even if they offered her a bungalow next door. 'It's my HOME, and has been for 53 years' she said. Again, too right!

You are angry and bitter towards the wrong people. Start a Government petition for more social housing. Don't post scathing posts on public message forums about how people should be thrown out of their social housing property to suit YOU. It's never going to happen anyway, so deal with it!

You have to remember where social housing is, for God sake. You couldn’t pay me £900 a month to live in those areas.

Feeling sorry or otherwise for private landlords is irrelevant really. The key problem in the UK is a shortage of the right houses in the right places. We need to build more houses, a lot more houses, and affordable houses at that.

Private rentals have always been, and will always be, an important part of the housing market. They suit some tenants for a multitude of reasons. The market as it is right now is heavily skewed by regulation and a lack of social and affordable housing constantly driving demand upwards. So the few private landlord left, those who don’t sell up or just leave their property empty or on Air BnB, can charge extortionate rents.

Until we build more affordable housing this problem will only get worse. Sadly successive governments have failed to do this.

And anyone thinking that social housing is some utopia that we should be aiming for has perhaps forgotten what a shit show these massive housing associations are. These crooks willingly ignore H&S legislation for so long, that kids have died from severe respiratory illnesses due to severe water ingress and mould infestation. Families are living with fungus growing out of walls and raw sewage flooding into their homes. Yet it’s the small time landlord who is vilified. FWIW I’m not for or against either parties. I’ve been both and know that there are some terrible humans in both groups.

So when you say we need more social housing do you mean we need to build more family sized homes? Where does this end? If someone can stay in their social housing for life then as the younger families needing social housing are coming through they will have nowhere to live? Where is the space coming from? Where is the money coming from? I don't want to see Great Aunt Maud turfed out of her home any more than you do but people are living longer and fewer and fewer families can afford to buy a house so what is the answer? Where do they go? It's all very well saying we need more social housing but where?

There needs to be more council houses that CANNOT be sold to tenants. Give them a time to get their life on track, better education, qualifications and then they have to move out so another person can benefit.
Obviously severely disabled are the exception but not there whole family

Strangely I think the main issues are within the cheaper 'buy to let ' end of the market -, we rent a lovely Victorian semi and are in a position that we can't buy until/if we inherit-because we are too old now to get mortgages- and we're not in a position too (in a niceish area) until we were older- yet we have good income.
Our landlords are lovely but kept the house and bought a big rural place with land. We don't want a 2 bed HA flat but it would give so money younger people a good start and the option to save- especially in the southern half of the country.

I think AirBNBs need banning in certain areas - especially in tourist areas and I would ban buy to let with less than 60% equity. But you have to balance it up with more supply on social housing. I also think they need to bring back self cert mortgages if you have 25% deposit and consistent income for at least 3 years. There are a fair few people in our position of being older who 'could afford' as they've got older due to lump sums and inheritances but now can't get mortgages- and don't necessarily want a 2 bed new flat in a shared ownership development.

I had a cracking ladlord once in my 17-odd years of renting, a few average ones and a few very bad ones. Having lived in over 15 properties in that time, that amounts to only 7% of decent landlords.

The one I really rated
-didn't carry out property checks
-fixed issues immediately (done professionally)
-when an issue with a boiler developed in one of the flats in the block I lived in, immediately checked on all others
-gave me my full deposit back when it was clear I left the property in the same state I got it

The average ones:
-carried out cleanliness checks every 4-6 months, expecting me to be home at stupid hours while I should be at work
-said they wanted long-term tenants but terminated contracts after a year (often to move family members in)
-took their time to get issues fixed (e.g. fixing a boiler in mid-winter at -6C outside took a week to get started)
-haggled for part of the deposit, knowing I needed the money quickly for the next property and couldn't afford to wait for the dispute to be solved
-upped the rent every 6 months and refused to give me a rolling contract

The below-average ones
-didn't inform me of a rodent issue and didn't fix it
-didn't protect my deposit
-got their dad/ friend to "fix" issues, mostly with duct tape
-promised on moving in that repairs would be done, the dragged said repairs out (claiming they needed x amount of rent befor ethey did it) then issued a S21 when I insisted to get a working cooker/ a front door without holes/ a window that wasn't cracked
-tried to keep most of my deposit for issues that were there before I moved in

Do I feel sorry for landlords? We all try to make a living, and property management is one way. I had two landlords who did this well enough, the rest were simply not good enough. I don't know what tests landlords have to pass in this country, or whether there are any requirements, but there should be stringent checks before anyone can rent out a property to others

But many just took what they could without fulfilling their duties.

I don't feel sorry for them either, and I am one! It's a business model, and it should benefit both sides.

This. I think I am a fair landlord - I realised today that I've never put the rent up, and the tenants have been there six years now, in zone 2 of London - and repairs are done promptly. They pay on time, I hold up my end of the bargain, we're no more in each other's lives than that. If you want actual solutions to the mess of UK housing:

• Stop overseas buyers speculating here
• Offer a reliable place for people's pensions/savings
• Develop a strategy with social housing and stick to it whether you're tory, labour or father christmas
• Make it easier to build in the right places
• Improve transport infrastructure

We haven’t put up a price increase since pre Covid even though the mortgage has gone up four hundred in the last year alone because our tenant is disabled and working pt and her husband is on minimum wage. We replace everything asap and are fully conformant. If they ever move out we’ll sell straight away. We couldn’t sell before due to negative equity. We are accidental landlords, apartment we couldn’t sell after having more children than room. We have been crippled over the years with sudden shock bills from things breaking etc. I would guess most people in our situation, ie one extra property they’re renting out are in the same situation.

This 👆

Problem wouldn't be solved if landlords just sold up. As previous posters have said, this would only reduce the availability of rental properties. The reality is that councils are unlikely to build more social housing as they don't have the money. This would get worse if landlords all sell to as many of them are looking to use the income to supplement their needs in old age. If they sell, there will be higher demands on local authorities in future years to provide care.

There is no magic bullet for this. Berating people for doing their best to provide for themselves in future is a pointless argument. Of course, there are greedy landlords, etc. etc. but there will always be extremes in anything.

It makes me so frustrated that we're in a place where it is supposedly OK to profit from the basic human need for shelter.

Are you also frustrated by supermarkets profiting from selling food?
Water companies from selling you water?
Energy companies from selling gas & electricity?

Why is shelter being singled out?

I don't know, seems to have worked after 1945.

I still don’t understand, if you all hate the individual landlords (talking about those who own 1-2 extra properties) so much, what do you think should happen otherwise? If they’re forced to sell up, people still won’t be magically able to afford mortgages, it won’t magically turn to social housing, no - the big companies and foreign cash buyers will buy them, and either be very much profit oriented, or just let it sit empty. Isn’t London full of empty investment properties already? And I say that as someone with my own experience with shady landlords 🤷‍♀️ (actually, the experience of my friends renting from a portfolio of property management companies was worse, especially when it came to raising rent)

Presumably you borrowed more on your current home then, forgoing the equity you'd built up in the now-rental. Unless you're living in a tent
No, I moved with my partner and helped paid fir that property AND mine that became a BTL (except I didn't buy to let!).

I am not moaning at all. I'm just fed up of the assumption that my tenants are paying my mortgage. They are certainly not.

One problem is that most private landlords do not create housing, they just buy existing stock (creating a shortage) and then rent it back. Many renters would have been able to buy had prices not been driven up by better capitalised amateur landlords. Large build to rent companies do at least add to the supply. Obviously the answer is more social housing but y'know Tories!

This. It is totally pointless berating people who are perfectly entitled to live in the home they may have had for decades. They won't move, unless they want to.

They don't have to, so that's where they will stay. They don't care what people on SM think.

Councils/HAs cannot throw out those with an assured tenancy. Assuming the rent is being paid, of course.

We need MORE affordable housing - preferably provided via social housing.🙄

Yet prices have not gone down despite a large number of rented properties coming up for sell.

I own properties. I plan to sell all mine in two years, give the money to my sons so they both can put the money towards moving up the property ladder themselves.
Thats a few houses less in the rental market
Times that by lots of other landlord =
Many less properties for people to rent.
=Higher rents
Oh well - MN’s will be happy