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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

5 year old French School Magnet Punishment System

58 replies

Romika · 20/09/2023 16:59

My dear little 5 year old boy is at a state school in Paris, France. His new form teacher has instilled a system whereby each of the kiddies gets a different coloured magnet for each time they step slightly out of line, from white to yellow to pink blue red etc, or some such.. and he's terrified of doing anything it would seem, being late, speaking too loudly, because of the stigma attached.
Does this seem hideously punitive and might stifle independent thought etc, or am I being overly woke? I know that they can be little nutters but it seems a little extreme.
Thanks!

OP posts:
TheWayTheLightFalls · 20/09/2023 22:29

@Needmorelego my kids’ school still has this.

literally everything Bertie wrote. 28 compliant kids, two who are on the cloud by the end of register and who then get moved up/rewarded for any basic shit the teacher can find.

BertieBotts · 20/09/2023 23:05

dadoodoodoo · 20/09/2023 22:18

Interesting that nearly all comparative studies show markedly better mental health outcomes for French children and young people than those in the uk. Obviously not necessarily a correlation with school discipline measures but I think we have to consider our more progressive regime is not translating into healthier, happier kids.

Do you know what this is based on? Because France has lower numbers for diagnoses of various mental health or developmental disorders but that doesn't necessarily mean that there is a lower prevalence of those disorders - it's thought to be related to the fact that there is a huge stigma about these things in French culture so people are less likely to seek a diagnosis in the first place.

goodkidsmaadhouse · 21/09/2023 12:17

BertieBotts · 20/09/2023 22:04

Yes, unfortunately, while the positive only ones are BETTER because they don't systematically label the children who can't fit into the system as "bad", they still have the same 2 main problems in that they don't look at why children aren't meeting behaviour expectations and they don't do anything to help children learn how or understand why to meet behavioural expectations. Plus, those systems can have their own issues if they end up getting used to try to counteract some of the issues, so children who are struggling get offered many more rewards/tokens for behaviours which are just expected, not rewarded in others - this can end up seeming unfair, and the children who are just in the middle, neither standout performance or "troublemakers" get overlooked and ignored.

I have heard good things about these (below) systems which have been used in schools. They work better for the kids who always end up on red, but apparently they ALSO tend to work well for the others too. Honestly I tend to think it's always a win if we're doing slightly better than the previous iteration, so non-violence is better than violence, unobtrusive punishment is better than outright humiliation, positive encouragement is better than punishment, and I agree with all the above points about the way that a system is being implemented being important too, but I do think these systems that look past behaviour are the best we have as of the current moment.

https://consciousdiscipline.com/

https://livesinthebalance.org/educators-schools/

https://zonesofregulation.com/for-your-school/

https://self-reg.ca/educators/

Yes... I've seen some of these used very successfully in schools. Though IME only when the staff/student ratios can support it, and that's where so many schools fall down. In the UK at least - or Scotland at least - the SLT policy is usually very much focused on supporting emotional literacy and regulation rather than reward/punishment. But staff can only do that in reality if they aren't spending most of their time on crowd control. I would love to hear from someone who has worked in a big, busy, vulnerable/mixed catchment primary school which has managed it - I'm sure they're out there!

dadoodoodoo · 21/09/2023 15:53

@BertieBotts it's the same on self-reported wellbeing studies such as PISA so not just a case of differential approaches to diagnosing mental health conditions.

fearfuloffluff · 21/09/2023 16:19

I think you sound a bit precious tbh, with the 'dear little boy' and 'terrified' etc.

Can your all to him and explain how it's good to do the right things, everyone makes mistakes sometimes, it doesn't really matter that much in the wider scheme of things? That he'll always be a lovely boy but it's good to follow the rules at school?

My understanding is that European schools just don't do pastoral care in the same way as UK schools, they don't see themselves as having to pussyfoot around feelings so much.

GhostofCastleMcDuckula · 21/09/2023 21:19

I mean, it’s better than when my French professor used to throw whiteboard pens at us for laughing at “piscine”

User8743 · 21/09/2023 21:26

Behaviour management is a killer in teaching. Sometimes you spend more time controlling a class than teaching. It just takes one and then it is a domino effect.
Effective discipline will benefit your "dear little 5 year old boy ".

Bemyclementine · 21/09/2023 21:27

My DC school do the cloud system mentioned by a pp. There seem to be 5 places. You start at the middle snd can be moved up or down. Often the naughty kids get moved up for minor good behaviour. The kids that behave generally stay I'm the middle.

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