How important do you think it is to be on time for a GP appt

[Ireolu]

Just that really.

Do you think it is important to turn up on time or early for a GP appt? Do you think you shd still be seen when you are 10 mins or more late for a 10 minute appt.

This is just for adults over 18 not for children. TIA for thoughts.

Not important at all. YABU.

You can't "clock in " at our surgery if you are not on time. But if you speak to the receptionist they are often sympathetic - I live in the middle of nowhere and it is common to be held up by a herd of cattle or flock of sheep - or a deer running across the road!

Daft question

You wouldn't turn up 10 mins late for a train or plane and expect it to be waiting for you. Why treat other people with less respect?

@PleaseGiveMeBackMySummer I agree.

I'm sure sometimes it's unavoidable that GPs are running late but I have many times had the first appointment of the day or the afternoon and seen the GP turn up late, float about making coffee and chatting to the receptionist. Half the time they aren't even trying to be on time.

I still do turn up on time but I do find the total lack of respect for other people's time annoying

Sometimes you might look like you are the GP’s first appointment of the day but often they’ve already done a home visit, sorted out the patient who walked in half dead as soon as the doors opened, been talking to the labs about someone’s abnormal test results or any other myriad of jobs the public do not see. Appointments start at 9 at our surgery but the staff get in at 7.30 and start working immediately so yes, by time clinic starts they can already be running late.

I don't know what the answer is.
I can see clearly why GPs run late (and they've explained here - and I've experienced myself where they've had an emergency situation with a previous patient and had to refer them to hospital...and then during my own apt the Dr wanted a second opinion and had to wait for another gp to be available) and it isnt 100% due to patients turning up late for appointments. It's not the GPs fault, but in the same way it's not always the patients fault if they are late (a PP described a road being blocked by a car accident)

There are always statitistics about how wasted appointments cost the NHS this much time and money (although as I previously mentioned I was put down as a DNA on at least 2 occasions when I had called a more than a week previously to cancel) ....but there is no recognition that there is a cost to others in the opposite scenario. Lots of posters here quite happily turn up half an hour ahead of time and don't mind a wait - listening to a podcast or reading a book - but in reality there's often a massive amount of time involved to get and attend an appointment. My son needed antibiotics for an ear infection earlier this year. Two days in a row, I called the surgery and spent 30-40 min in a queue to get an apt, in the end I realised that there weren't going to be any appointments left so gave up and took the morning off, drove to a walk in centre half an hour away (v 10 min walk to gp) waited about 40 min, saw the Dr, drove 30 min home. That's probably 3 hrs for a 10 min apt for a straightforward issue. In this scenario there were no carparking charges but clinics running late at hospitals often mean paying an extortionate fee for an extra hours parking.

They usually won’t see you if you’re over 5 mins late which is funny because they’re almost never on time themselves…

With respect, this just isn't always the case.

My previous GP used to drop her children off at the primary school over the road from my house at 9, I often saw her do it, even though the surgery had her first appointment at 9.. 15 mins away from school. She would then walk in, make a coffee, faff about, log in and see her first patient half an hour late.

I always have to wait 30 mins or more. Years ago, my barrister sister had to wait 30 mins for her doc-who arrived with golf clubs over his shoulder - and so sent him a bill for 30 minutes of her time.

I work in healthcare and it’s a pain when people are late-we’re fully booked so if you miss your slot, why should others have to be put out who made sure they got there on time?

i don’t suppose you think there might be a good reason they are running late? I’m a Dr (not an gp) and I can assure you that my clinic running late is not my idea of fun. It’s actually pretty stressful- I know i’m going to get at least one annoyed/sarky/tetchy patient and I’m either gong to run into or miss my break/lunch or finish late. And I still have all the admin etc to do after clinic is finished. I promise you that I don’t do it by choice! I imagine most dr’s, including gp’s, are similar- they aren’t running late for fun or to wind up patients.

And yes, sometimes I’m running late by 1st patient- so many reasons this can happen. My working day does not start with my first clinic appointment- I can have urgent results to deal with, someone wanting advice about my patient or their patient, admin/my secretary needing me to look at/advise on/ approve or decide something etc (and if my gp friends are typical, these all apply to them too).

During clinic or surgery, we get urgent messages we have to deal with, or sometimes a consultation just takes a long time- could be breaking bad news, a complicated diagnosis or treatment to explain, an unexpected finding/not straightforward case, for instance. And we’ve all had elderly patients take what feels like forever to get themselves ready for examination (not complaining- I’ll be old and possibly a bit slow too one day) and then back together again so you’ve lost a good chunk of your appointment time for that alone etc etc. GP’s still have the issue of a short consultation time and patients coming in with multiple issues- none of which can be safely dealt with in the time allotted.

That said, if I am running late I will often see patients who turn up late- depending on how late they turn up vs how late I’m running. E.g. if I am running 20 minutes behind and someone turns up 10 minutes late, I’ll see them- but if they turn up an hour late I won’t, unless it’s a very urgent case when I would try to fit them in. If people call to let us know they are running late, we will usually try to work around it. But I have patients who are routinely late and when this happens we do start refusing to see them if they are late.

You've described this really well.

Many people are complaining about the state of GP services. Either they can't get an appointment, it's really difficult to make that appointment, the delays are too long, the consulting time insufficient or prescription/medication mistakes.

I have been supporting my elderly mother recently and almost every interaction with the GP surgery there has been a problem. Phonecalls aren't returned. Prescriptions are incorrect. I worked as an AHP for a number of years and I am absolutely astounded as the sheer fuckwittery of it all. It has been very very stressful trying to support her at a distance.

I've got to the point now where I literally have no idea how I should communicate with them. The e-consult form is very long winded and isn't always appropriate. If and when they action the e-consult form they set up a telephone appointment but don't actually communicate the date or time unless you happen to stumble upon it in the app. My Mum has two failed appointments in her clinical records which I assume were because no one realised they had actually been arranged.

I've previously rung to try and sort out issues but it took three phonecalls to sort out a medication issue and even then there was a lapse of almost a week where my Mum was without some of her tablets which then caused another issue and a 111 call/out of hours GP visit. Me breaking down on the phone to the receptionist finally resolved the issue. The nurse said that she had never received the first two messages. Her clinical notes didn't even include my concerns about the fuck up just the fact that I was upset.

Yes, we know GPs are busy. Everyone is busy. Attending an appointment and collecting a prescription should take an hour max but it never does because you have to allow for them 'running late' every single time. You also have to factor in them fucking up the prescription. A couple of weeks ago I realised the prescription was wrong when I got to the pharmacy so I had to drive five miles back to the GP surgery, have a conversation with the receptionist, wait for the GP, have a conversation with the GP, wait again, have another conversation with the GP, wait again, drive five miles back to the pharmacist. Same thing again the other day except I collected the prescription then realised it was wrong so now I've had to go back and ask them to reissue the prescription which once again I have had to flag with the surgery, request a re-issue and will have to go an collect.

It's not all about patients being late. A lot of it is about an unfit service and poor listening/written comprehension by surgery staff.

@jacks11 I appreciate everything you have said. On the very rare occasions I am late, I apologise. If I may be late for a work meeting, unavoidably, other attendees are informed.

My last two outpatient appointments were running one and three quarter hours late. That is not acceptable. There was a half hidden whiteboard and I watched an admin rub out 30 minute delay and replace it with one hour, 45 minutes. Not everyone could see it. Nobody was informed. Had I been told that when I arrived I'd have advised I couldn't wait that long because I had allowed for an hour's over-run in my schedule but had a meeting at 2pm that could not be delayed. Because, like doctors, I have a professional job.

The issue is poor communication and the fact that nobody in the NHS ever apologises for inconvenience. Patient time is important too but regrettably there seems to be very limited respect for the patient. It will never change whilst services are free at the point of delivery. If you were my solicitor or accountant I would not pay your bills. Funnily enough it never happens when I see a doctor privately- I appreciate they have more time and less pressures privately but the attitude of all those around them is different too and one tends not to be treated as a subordinate ingrate.

Things have to change.

How often happens the situation that the practice runs exactly on time and the next patient isn't there, so the time slot is really wasted?

I turn up 15 minutes early and expect to wait at least half an hour after the appointed time. If the GP is able to see me in time that's a good.

I am always at least 5 minutes early (aim for more but parking is abysmal near the surgery). It is important to be on time, but annoying that you always end up waiting an age regardless.
I once asked if I had been missed as I was the only one waiting, appointment time had been and gone and I had kids to pick up. Receptionists cheerily told me the patient after me had arrived before me, so the GP had just taken them first, leaving me sitting for another 25 minutes. I find that to be completely out of order - running late is one thing, but it isn't my fault if I'm early, but the next patient arrived a good 30 minutes early, for some reason!

It's easier to blame patients turning up late than to fix or amend a system that doesn't really work properly- for NHS staff or the patients.

If 100% of patients arrived for their appointment on time, would everybody be seen at their appointment time? No. There are people who have turned up for the first appointment of the day and been seen late! Because sometimes 10 min isn't long enough to assess/diagnose a problem...because sometimes patients need emergency referals to hospital etc and a whole load of GP admin that as a non gp I don't know about. That isn't the GPS fault or the patient that has waited. Of course patients turning up late slows things down but there are other factors as well.

And how long is an "acceptable or reasonable" time for someone to wait beyond their appointment time? A PP notes the waiting time was 1 hr 45 behind appointment time..
In some ways walk ins, minor injuries and even A and E are more straightforward as you go there expecting to wait - there's no prior expectation you'll be seen at a specific time. (Not advocating that minor injuries or A and E are a suitable alternative to a gp apt)

I've put off going to the GP before because I couldn't face allocating 30 min or more waiting on the phone for an appointment...or to find out all the appointments have gone for that day (sometimes several days in a row) That's for minor stuff. But it's conceivable people might do the same for a more serious problem. Then the GP has (in theory) a 10 min appointment to read medical notes, get info, examine a patient, diagnose a potential problem, make a referral etc etc. I don't know if/how the service can be changed but this points out how it doesn't really work well for either the Dr or the patient, and saying the NHS loses this much time and money because of patients turning up late might be true but its only part of the picture. (That's not mentioning people not turning up because either they didn't know about the apt or had previously cancelled it!)

@Fizbosshoes I am beginning to wonder if it's part of a centralised, machiavellian plan. I don't have time to mess around with my GP any more. I simply don't have 30 minutes to hang on a phone, to make an appointment with an abrupt receptionist, or 30 minutes to waste in the waiting room, then another 30 minutes to chase up a referral and resolve a missing repeat prescription. That's two hours of my time to sort out very simple things that shoukd work like clockwork, notwithstanding being unavailable for work to facilitate mid morning/mid afternoon appointments. Two to three hours of my time stacks up to about £185 based on my hourly rate.

It's more cost effective to book an appointment at one of the private GPs at our local private hospital for £120. Alternatively, PPP now gives me five appointments per annum under my insurance cover.

I think there is purposeful privatisation by stealth going on.

Every time I go to my GP I always wait at least an hour after my appointment time to be seen so the reality is that being on time isn't important.

@RosesAndHellebores I wonder this too.

Through work, I can get private healthcare for £11 a month which covers the kids as well. I can get a same day GP appointment by video within 24 hours and they actually turn up on time as well.

My lovely GP, who's looked after me since 2004, rarely runs to time. I pull her leg about it. But I don't mind because she gives people the time they need. Take my knitting and have a peaceful time waiting.
I'm OK waiting because I'm retired so time isn't a major issue for me.

I’m amazed at the number of people who believe it’s the GP’s fault for the schedule running late, and even suggesting it’s because they take a leisurely lunch or go for a round of golf.

Within their ten-minute appointment they have to get you in from the waiting room, take your history, diagnose/investigate, make a decision about referral or prescription, write the prescription or referral and ensure you have your questions answered and make sure the notes on your record are updated. Ten minutes.

How many of these involve mental health issues or a complex range of symptoms that takes more than 10 minutes to cover? Of course the surgery doesn’t run to time. It’s not the GPs fault. I doubt most of them even get a lunch break. It’s clearly an issue with the system but don’t blame the staff for a faulty system. They are only doing their best to help you with a system that works against them. Why do you think GPs are leaving the profession in droves?

I remember that and it was awful. Not only was it a long wait but half the time you would end up sitting next to someone who was coughing and sneezing for hours.

Always early here. Dosent matter if you have to wait. Think of all the people who don't have access to a doctor in the world, when they need it. We are fortunate..