Page 7 | To think we should up the age of consent to 18?

KnittedCardi · 20/09/2023 13:09

As others have pointed out, that puts most of our older relatives in an exploitative role. I never really thought about it as grooming, or exploitation, or anything sinister. My DM was 17 when she married my DF of 23. She had three children by 24, that was back in 1945. Different times and not unusual then, but they were both fighting in the war, so very much more mature than perhaps youngsters today. I do think there is a danger of delaying adulthood the further we push out all these limits.

ehupo7 · 20/09/2023 13:44

whatnet · 20/09/2023 12:07

No one is proposing that 16 year olds stop having sex. The argument is that we up the age of consent to 18/Romeo and Juliet Law to protect 16 and 17 year olds from predatory and violent sexual behaviour from adults. Someone mentioned Philip Schofield and Hue Edwards earlier and how they thought their behaviour should still have been viewed as criminal. I agree, but currently there is no legislation to protect children at 16 and 17. It’s like they are seen as ‘fair game’ 🤢

Actually they are – ‘Disturbia81’ is suggesting that 16 year olds can just not have sex till 18, like her and her mates.

There is no need for 16 year olds to be having sex, all this "power of the hormones" bullshit. Me and my friend group easily avoided having sex at that age.

I mean 🤷🏻

On several of these RB threads I’ve said the law is incoherent, no longer seems to reflect public opinion, and an R&J law could be considered. I think the idea of a limited age range for partners of 16 & 17 year olds is a v good solution.

Disturbia81 · 20/09/2023 13:49

But for the message to get across to predators that under 18 is absolutely wrong then you have to change the law for all. It sends a clear message.
Trouble is they'll still fancy and persue 18 year olds.

cheezncrackers · 20/09/2023 13:54

I don't think we should raise the age of consent, but I do think there should be a law about how old the partner of a person aged 16-18 can be.

MintJulia · 20/09/2023 14:06

The views and needs of the teenagers must be taken into account unless you think criminalising teens is a good thing. Some kids are hitting puberty at 12 or 13 and to ignore that is just sticking your head in the sand.

Teens will have sex, no matter what the rules. Their hormones are running wild, so if two teens - say 16 & 17 have consensual sex, why should either of them be criminalised?

A staggered arrangement where 16yos could consent to sex with other non-adults would be more sensible and workable but in reality it just moves the problem up a year or two. 17 & 18yos can be in the same class at college. Romances and therefore sex will always happen. Perhaps an age differential (4 years?) should apply to anyone below the age of 18. So a 21yo dating a 16yo would not be ok.

cheezncrackers · 20/09/2023 14:12

Yes, I think it would have to be on age differential. So when it comes to 16- and 17-year-olds the partner should be no more than two years older or something like that.

Imamumgetmeoutofhere · 20/09/2023 14:14

Sugarfree23 · 19/09/2023 00:26

Logically it would make sense but you can get married at 16.
So while it's nuts that you can marry and have children but not be old enough to toast the bridesmaids or take your baby to softplay (children need supervised by over 18) .

It would be seriously illogical to allow marriage, but not sex.

Not the point of the thread but the legal marriage age in the UK rose to 18 in 2022 which is a relief really

PosterBoy · 20/09/2023 14:16

Imamumgetmeoutofhere · 20/09/2023 14:14

Not the point of the thread but the legal marriage age in the UK rose to 18 in 2022 which is a relief really

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2023 and apparently only England and Wales

NeedToChangeName · 20/09/2023 14:19

1Gadfly · 19/09/2023 08:05

This is partially correct for parts of the UK.
N Ireland and Scotland, the marriageable age, with parental consent, remains 16.
In Feb this year, the law changed to 18 for England and Wales.

@1Gadfly in Scotland, you can get married at 16, no need for parental consent

Beezknees · 20/09/2023 14:27

KnittedCardi · 20/09/2023 13:09

As others have pointed out, that puts most of our older relatives in an exploitative role. I never really thought about it as grooming, or exploitation, or anything sinister. My DM was 17 when she married my DF of 23. She had three children by 24, that was back in 1945. Different times and not unusual then, but they were both fighting in the war, so very much more mature than perhaps youngsters today. I do think there is a danger of delaying adulthood the further we push out all these limits.

But we are not in 1945! Times have changed.

Ponoka7 · 20/09/2023 14:30

The law won't be used, it isn't as it stands. Ask anyone working in CP how many child sex abuse cases are taken up by the CPS. We had a clear case of a man (whose children has been removed) having sex with a 14 year old, CPS wouldn't touch it. It would be a waste of time.
Better to invest in consent, exploitative/abusive relationships etc. It's no less damaging to be in an abusive relationship at 16 with a 17 year old. Young men kill young women, there's been lots of teen girls being killed by rejected etc teen boys.
I don't recognise the 16 year old "children" described on here. The part of Liverpool I live in doesn't allow the sheltered upbringing I read about on here. At 17 they are young adults not children. It would be a safeguarding nightmare for our local colleges and workplaces. The teens around me have to work as soon as they can, they aren't the driven around, pampered ones on here. Work training could also make it clear what predatory behaviour is and stamp it out.

Hont1986 · 20/09/2023 16:03

I disagree with the OP, I think 16 is about appropriate.

WhatapityWapiti · 20/09/2023 16:08

user1471453601 · 19/09/2023 00:37

It would be interesting to do a poll of all those posters who gave a flying fuck about the legal age of consent, before they had sex.

I was 15 he was 17. I didn't care what the law said, only what my hormones said.

I understand where you are coming from opening poster, in view of today's "news" about "Alice" being abused by RB, but raising the age of consent for girls, won't stop girls wanting sex.

Yup, when I decided to lose my virginity (with a boy the same age) the last thing on my mind was whether or not it was legal. It wasn’t like we were going to get raided by the police, and any objection our parents might have had was not going to be based on legality but rather their views on our maturity/ length of relationship/morals. As it happened we were both 16 but I swear I never thought about it in terms of law.

And I’m now a lawyer!

newlystyle · 20/09/2023 16:11

Yanbu. Absolutely sickening that 16 yo having sex is so normal here. I'm from a country where it's 18 and a 16yo is like a 12yo.

boobot1 · 20/09/2023 16:28

whatnet · 19/09/2023 00:10

I just have this utterly sick feeling about the constant narrative pushed in the UK about a CHILD being ‘16’ and therefore, “what is your problem?”… “it’s ‘legal’” I am so sick of the exploitation of our girls in this country. Our CHILDREN. Our future. Who do not have a voice, because they are children. They need to be protected. I will pre empt some of your arguments. The UK government has classified the violence against Women and Girls as a “National Threat”

https://lordslibrary.parliament.uk/tackling-violence-against-women-and-girls-in-the-uk/

A 16 year old girl is a child and should be protected as a child, by law.

Couldnt agree more.

Hufflemuff · 20/09/2023 16:33

Lots of reasons already mentioned on both sides that I agree with.

One additional consideration I don't see mentioned (but I have skim read)...

If we increase age to 18, with no additional provisions for policing then ALL "under age of consent" crimes would suffer. As in, children who are actual children (not young adults/teens) being raped would face delays in sentencing their crimes.

WhatapityWapiti · 20/09/2023 16:34

newlystyle · 20/09/2023 16:11

Yanbu. Absolutely sickening that 16 yo having sex is so normal here. I'm from a country where it's 18 and a 16yo is like a 12yo.

So it must be:

India, Vietnam, Turkey, Uganda, Argentina, Chile, Guatemala, Iraq, Lebanon or Egypt?

Original poster

whatnet · 20/09/2023 17:41

“The age of consent is not the issue, it really isn't. Its the predator. The law will end up causing more issues than it will solve.”

So, if your daughter was ‘Alice’ from the RB documentary or the ‘child’ in the Huw Edwards case, or the ‘child’ in the Philip Schofield case, you would still think the same?

I think upping the age of consent/Romeo Juliet Law actually protects against the predator and stops putting the focus on children “to keep themselves safe” 🤢

A predator will always be a predator so we as a society should send a clear message that we will, collectively protect our children and have no room for ‘loopholes’… “ah but they were 16”

OP posts:

Original poster

whatnet · 20/09/2023 18:00

Hufflemuff · Today 16:33

Lots of reasons already mentioned on both sides that I agree with.

One additional consideration I don't see mentioned (but I have skim read)...

If we increase age to 18, with no additional provisions for policing then ALL "under age of consent" crimes would suffer. As in, children who are actual children (not young adults/teens) being raped would face delays in sentencing their crimes.

Do you not agree that 16 and 17 year olds are children? I have teenagers. I work with teenagers. I can assure you they are children. They do not have the brain development to be adults, and they are also mostly within the education system therefore have not made their way in the world yet to have independent thinking and experiences that would help their understanding of the wider world. I am baffled that this is hard to understand. ‘Children’ should not face delays in sentencing, the police and courts should be equipped to deal with this, but sadly we know that this is not the case.

OP posts:

TheCupboardUnderTheStairsAtTheMojoDojoCasaHouse · 20/09/2023 18:06

A staggered age of consent would be the sensible midpoint - it avoids criminalising two consenting young people, and still protects them from older predators.

I'd be in favour of something like 15-17yos being able to sleep with someone up to 2 years older, and over 18s with anyone.

Oblomov23 · 20/09/2023 18:37

Nope. Don't agree. Happy with ages as they are. It makes sense.

Marblessolveeverything · 20/09/2023 18:55

You asked

"So, if your daughter was ‘Alice’ from the RB documentary or the ‘child’ in the Huw Edwards case, or the ‘child’ in the Philip Schofield case, you would still think the same?"

Yes I would, because consent involves both parties being on an equal footing. If you are not and their is a questionable difference in power then consent can't take place.

You are asking about predators, a age of consent won't impact the abuse happening. But it will send a message to 16 year old on their body autonomy. I understand that would not be the purpose of the law but that is what the narrative would be.

I have a teen I am neck deep reading up on consent, different jurisdictions and their research and impact on mental health. I appreciate the desire to protect but I think it's a case of empowering as well.

SquirrelSoShiny · 20/09/2023 18:57

MrsTerryPratchett · 19/09/2023 00:43

Could you cite your source? TIA.

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You beat me to it. Absolute bullshit.

SquirrelSoShiny · 20/09/2023 19:00

It is perfectly possible to allow for two young people close in age to have consensual sex while absolutely nailing much older perpetrators bleating 'But she's 16!'

And they are fucking perpetrators as far as I'm concerned.

Simonjt · 20/09/2023 19:12

heartofglass23 · 19/09/2023 22:20

It shouldn't be legal for adult to have sex with kids

Astounded this needs saying.

My husband was 17 when he had his first boyfriend who was 18, that being illegal would be stupid really.