Work expenses claims

[Benchpress]

I worked in finance/auditing/counter fraud roles and am now a senior manager.

My boss is really lax with financial requests and will say yes to anything. This includes travel expenses, RnR, equipment allowances, IT requests. He’s lax in other ways too. As a result, so are the people I manage. There’s a culture of “get what you can” and it’s public sector.

Due to my career history I’m starting to feel uncomfortable as I’m being placed in situations to approve financial requests that are against guidance. I’m not sure to what extent I should turn a blind eye? Am I just being a stickler for the rules?

I’m starting to feel like I’m not a “team player” if I question things. But ultimately I know from experience no one will back me when my name is against something dodgy! Some people have already had to overpay things that were approved before I joined without my involvement so conscious of a patten being discovered. aibu?

No be a stickler. Rules are rules, your job is a stake otherwise

Given your role, YANBU to not approve claims that are against guidance. Actually you wouldn’t BU whatever your role, but especially in finance and compliance being las is not a good look. Tricky with your boss tho. Is he in a similar role? If so I’m quite surprised he’s being so relaxed.

I wonder if there is a way to raise it with him without accusing him of being lax. For example, could you ask him to clarify the guidance for you, as you’ve noticed some things being approved that you might normally have questioned. Approach it as “I’d like to understand how we apply the rules around here so I am fair to everyone when approving requests” and then give some examples of “grey areas” .

But I’d someone has travelled for work why can’t they claim travel expenses? Or IT equipment they need?

Is any of it illegal or fraudulent? Are people claiming for things they haven’t bought?

The problem lies when people are claiming for alcohol, extra meals, taxi fares etc as these aren’t allowed. Especially not allowed when they haven’t cleared it with me first. Especially not in public sector where it would be a media storm if it got out.

IT requests aren’t just equipment, could be expensive software too. Could be things like requesting iPhones and MacBooks when there’s nothing wrong with their IT kit. Could be their 5th replacement of something etc.

My boss is honestly an enigma. I think he’s just sticking around to get promoted so doesn’t want to rock the boat or do anything that might vaguely piss anyone off including following HR processes. It’s hard for me as someone used to direction and working to confines of policy to adjust to…

Public Sector ? Tip off Internal Audit

OK fair enough

I missed that you were in public sector.

As an ex public sector worker I can relate to the cheeky fuckery and perception of the never ending coffers. It’s been a while but it does attract a certain type of piss taker

I think you have to ask: does the buck stop with you? If it does you need to protect your job and yourself not the piss takers

Your training and experience are speaking to you. Listen to them.

If necessary refer people to the relevant policies and guidance. You didn't make the rules. Be honest with them - tell them you don't want anyone to get in trouble and aren't in a position to bend the rules. Simple as that.

If you have an internal audit function and/or compliance I would honestly speak to them or go via a whistleblowing option if that is available. But if you are at senior manager level you should raise it yourself. If you are approving some of these then you will be implicated when someone else raises it and you are audited.

If it does you need to protect your job and yourself not the piss takers

i thought this but it’s hard when I’m being made to look unreasonable cause “boss wouldn’t care.”

I assure you if “boss” knew the specifics he would distance himself from a shit show and cover his back! Feels like everyone’s against me.

I'd be looking at the whistleblowing policy and for a new job. You are complicit in it at the moment.

I work in the private sector and would never get away with this.

do you work for the scottish government by any chance???????? Just wondering because it has been revealed recently that MSPs have spent millions on non work related items via their company credit cards!! ie home karaoke machines, driving tests, kids parties, home delivery of pizzas on saturday night! etc etc etc!!! all paid for by government (public) money

Oh god some silly sausage has just tried to resubmit expenses I rejected yesterday

Time to just reject anything that falls outside the rules. If queried refer them to guidance. Word will soon get round that the rules are being applied strictly and old practices will no longer be tolerated.

in a previous job i was famous for rejecting expenses claims (in the system as well as in person) if they were outside a) company guidelines and b) the law (not in UK)

I rejected one by the CEO (all handled by his secretary) for being incomplete, and you could almost hear the gasp when she told him. And he called, and i explained, and said that i turn them down on these grounds all the time and that an audit would pick it up if i didn't. And after that? everyone did at least that part of their expenses correctly.

I feel your pain, OP:

the counter, btw, to "boss wouldn't care" is "the law/auditors do care though".

I've only ever worked in places where you couldn't purchase anything (not anything that you could claim or the company would be invoiced for) without prior confirmation within the accounting system.

I would reject expenses in writing every time with the reason why - refer to the policy. And perhaps include a line about "as this falls outside of the expenses policy, I will need authorisation from x".

Side note, your comment about the iPhone just gave me the rage, because the last charity I worked for gave me budget management and expenses responsibility, then kept listening every time the staff whined that they wanted iPhones not android or vice versa and approved every last damn whinge.

"Oh, the budget you set didn't work thecats."
"No fucking shit you went around it every time."

I had saved their entire operating overheads for my previous employer, because the staff were basically savvy enough to know that 2 is more than 1.

I work as a public sector fraud investigator. I would definitely speak to your internal audit/counter fraud team in the first instance. If any of the claims were later found to be fraudulent then questions would be asked as to why they were authorised. Let internal audit/counter fraud do an audit/proactive exercise into historic claims, authorisation processes etc and then implement any recommendations they make, until that point follow the guidance to the letter.

I had to do this. My predecessor allowed pretty much any expenses no matter whether allowable or not to go through within reasonable spend limits. And mileage claims were vastly overinflated distances.

I circulated a memo with reminder of the rules as to expenses, what was claimable and what was not with the company and government guidelines attached.
I stated that any expenses that were not within these guidelines for claims submitted after (next month's claim date) would not be approved for payment.

And stuck to it, no matter how unpopular. Saved the company a small fortune in random lunch bills full of alcohol, and mileage claims, didn't stop a persistent few trying it on time and time again though.

It's your job that will be on the line for not complying. Put a line under past claims and start afresh with the (your) rules.

Honestly if you have worked in fraud like i have you know how this is going to go down with the auditors at year end! Your name will be on it not bosses. If he wants to authorise it fine but it goes under his name not yours, you are putting yourself at serious risk here. There are also the tax implications as well where HMRC could get involved and trust me you dont want to be questioned by them. Good luck OP.

This is why councils are going bankrupt!

Can you say I can't approve this go to my boss, if he does it's on him.

You're doing the right thing, as I think you know. Keep up the good work.

Rules are rules - common sense interpretation is needed sometimes but this sounds like people are just being CFs

I'd read your organisation's whistle blowing policy and anti fraud policy. You can also speak to their internal auditors directly or tip them off anonymously. If you're public sector your anti fraud policy should also include anti fraud reporting contact details. Im a director of public sector governance and know how tough this situation can be. But if there's ever an investigation - and there will be eventually as these things are always found out, you don't want to be found as complicit or an active bystander. Remember if it doesn't feel right its not! Best of luck

Send out a reminder of guidance and stick to it. You can treat it as educational if you want to sound nice but really they need telling they're acting like entitled brats.