To ask those in the know....

[NurseryNurse10]

About childcare qualifications.

If someone goes to uni and does a degree in childhood studies does this then mean they count as a qualified member of staff in a nursery ratio?
Or do they have to have the level 2 or level 3 first? I ask this because my friend wants to do some nursery work but hasn't done the level 2 or 3 so has no practical experience.

Degree is like level 6, so counts for that. But I expect a setting would want some actual experience. The pay likely won't be better for having the higher level unless they are specifically seeking it though, settings are all struggling.

Out of curiosity, why have they chosen to do that degree if they don't have any experience? It's a lot of work to do without even knowing you like the job!

Actually I say that.. i know some settings are struggling to recruit enough qualified staff so maybe that will trump the lack of experience!

If it's on the government list of full and relevant qualifications, it will be a Level 6.

This will qualify your friend to work in a nursery setting at a level 3 ratio (with QTS they can work at 1:13 with a level 3 practitioner alongside, usually only used in school nurseries, but just a degree doesn't allow this). Pay won't be any better for having a degree, trust me!

https://www.gov.uk/guidance/early-years-qualifications-finder

They don't have a QTS. It's a BA in childhood studies.
She has not been assessed practically like you are on a L3 course. Not sure how she can then be included in L3 ratio. Quite confusing.

If there's no element of practical assessment then it isn't a full and relevant qualification and she cannot be counted as a level 3 practitioner.

Did she qualify pre or post September 2014?

If post, the only F&R quals named BA(Hons) Childhood Studies are from UEA or Nottingham Trent. All the others listed are Early Childhood Studies. Which does she have? If just Childhood Studies it looks unlikely she's early years qualified.

You can do an early years degree without first doing your level 3 - it's all covered in the degree (this is how I got into the sector). But it must have an element of assessed practice.

I have an early childhood studies degree and I'm counted in ratio at work.

Of course she can be included in the ratios. As long as she has the relevant DBS checks she is a full member of staff. There are very many people who work in jobs that they haven't worked up from the bottom in or got a relevant degree for.

Yes but the ratios must include 1 level 3 and 50% of other staff must hold a level 2. This means qualified staff are far more desirable when it comes to actually getting a job.

Unqualified staff are of course extremely valuable and I've worked with many. With a degree in childhood studies, in most cases the person will be unqualified. Still able to work in ratio - but getting a job may be harder than if they had a degree in early childhood studies or early years.

Some Early Childhood studies degrees are on the full and relevant qualification list as they have an element of practical assessment. Look at the list and it will state which university courses do this. The quickest route to a relevant qualification with a degree not on the list is to do Early Years Teacher Status L6 whilst working in a nursery (it's free) or PGCE (it's not free). EYT takes about 9 months whilst working and earning, whereas a L3 takes much longer.

She's only just qualified, early childhood. So I guess that means its OK?
If these recent courses also includes a practical element?
One of the managers I know has a level 3 AND a BA in childhood studies obtained about ten years ago.
This lady discussed in OP, only has the recent degree

A BA in Early Childhood Studies with an element of assessed practice in an early years setting will qualify her.

There are many different ways to enter the early years sector, some people who qualified at level 3 choose to go on to a degree, but you can also do a degree directly from college/sixth form without already holding a relevant level 3. I had A-levels unrelated to early years. And again, not much benefit to having a non-QTS degree - you're paid the same as any other level 3. I'm about 5p above minimum wage.

I've read as well that if you qualified after 2014 you also need paediatric first aid for it to be relevant but don't think she has that. It's all quite confusing. I was looking earlier and reading something where some degrees in childcare were not recognised and people felt they had wasted their money.
It's sad really that in some cases, the level 3 is the only part which matters and not the actual degree. But then I know assessing practical skills is and should be a major part of the training which certain degrees lack. I know when I did my level 3 (cache) it was 50% theory and 50% practical.

Your first point:
"All staff who obtained a level 2 or level 3 qualification on or after 30 June 2016 must also have either a full PFA or an emergency PFA certificate within 3 months of starting work in order to be included in the required staff to child ratios at level 2 or level 3 in an early years setting."

It may have been built into her degree, or her future employer will have to sort it quickly. Some will be more than happy to arrange that.

Unfortunately it does seem like some students were misled or ill-informed about the qualifications they would hold after their degree, but it's good that there's more clarity. The list I posted earlier makes it very clear what is qualified and what isn't.

Can I ask why you're so invested in your friend's qualification? You seem almost annoyed that she might be qualified after 3 years of university-level study? Many level 3s will have done 2 years of college-level study. There's a big difference.

She's only just qualified, early childhood. So I guess that means its OK?* * If these recent courses also includes a practical element?One of the managers I know has a level 3 AND a BA in childhood studies obtained about ten years ago.This lady discussed in OP, only has the recent degree

None of that makes any difference.

The nursery can appoint anyone with any qualification as long as there is always someone on site who holds a level 3 and a PFA certificate. At least half the staff must have level 2 or above. The minimum anyone else needs is a current enhanced DBS certificate.

Just tell her to apply. The nursery won't engage her if she doesn't have what they need.