Scout camp plans excluding weak swimmers

[LostMySocks]

DS scout group have announced a summer camp....surf camp. They have also linked the camps to getting the Gold award.
DD is a weak swimmer. No way should he be in the sea as there is a real risk that he will get into trouble. There doesn't seem to be an alternative plan even though there are younger children joining before summer. I'm assuming they won't all be super swimmers. I know they are all volunteers but this seems short sighted as a supposedly inclusive organisation. DS is very upset at the idea of not going but I don't want to pay for him to sit on a beach.

What criteria is the camp meeting? I'm guessing the nights away (8 in total over 3.5 years) and Adventurous activities. Missing one camp shouldn't completely compromise the first activity... my 10yo Scout has had 11 NA since moving up to Scouts already but she's an extreme example! Its 4 weekend camps in 3.5 years. And the adventurous activities don't actually have to be with Scouts.

I have previously volunteered with Wave Project, they take groups of teens with physical disabilities and learning difficulties surfing. Many of those can’t swim at all. It is a very accessible activity with the right supervision.

rather than immediately assume he is excluded, ask them how he will be included, it could be a fantastic opportunity for him to try something completely new in a safe and structured environment

This is a volunteer-run organisation, with people who are good enough to give up a weekend/week of their OWN TIME to take other people's children away to camp, and spend probably six months planning it.

You are of course free to do all the training, sign up as a leader and organise your own rock climbing trip. There are clearly enough Scouts who are confident enough in the water to benefit from and enjoy a surf camp. The fact that your child is not a strong swimmer is neither here nor there.

So glad I'm not actively involved in this sort of volunteering any more. Kids a delight. Parents, not so much.

It's not "failing to be inclusive" if the scouts do an activity that not everyone can do. If the troop had a child as a member who was blind or deaf would you expect the whole troop to only do things that can be done without any aspect needing sight or hearing? Obviously the members who can't do a particular thing are included as far as is possible within their abilities but there are still going to be some activities and experience which they can't access.

But in this case you aren't even dealing with a disability, just a child who hasn't had enough practice yet. That can be fixed.

Just to dispell a bit of a misnomer on this.

You DO NOT need to be a swimmer to do canoeing with scouts.

Their website says the following:
Everyone should be able to swim 50m wearing the clothing or equipment for the activity. Non-swimmers will need additional support.

The advice is the same for surfing. Check the scouting UK website.

Being stricter than that depends on the actual level of canoeing activity and the adult to child ratio. So a canoeing expedition might require a higher level of ability - which will be at the permitted leaders discretion based on a risk assessment, than beavers doing a taster session with their parents.

Being able to swim 50m in a buoyancy aid on flat water is totally different to being able to swim 50m unaided too.

It is possible to be running activities at range of levels with appropriate supervision even for none swimmers.

Scout UK would not allow non swimmers to surf if it wasn't possible for them to do it safely under the right conditions.

DH is permitted for kayaking and canoeing.

You are being totally unreasonable sorry.

There will be other more relevant camps .

Get your kids swimming asap , lessons !

So he cant swim OP?

But I bet he is shit hot on using devices and gadgets.

You need to take him swimming yourself, you dont need formal lessons specifically. You show him moves and how to float and how to strengthen his arms and legs. Take him every week. Take him down to the seaside where the natural waves mean that you learn much quicker, get him a little wet suit

Get him on the lists for formal lessons too

He might not even go on the summer camp, they might not end up doing surfing but he needs to learn how to swim and as others have pointed out, there really hasnt been any reason why this shouldnt have happened before covid, during covid and post covid.

You say he is a weak swimmer? Not a non swimmer? Can he float, doggy paddle short distances, is he water confident? Is he happy to be splashed and go under?
I would think it was likely to be that risky for him. He will be supervised and properly kitted out. I’d be doing what I could to build up his swimming ability and then letting him go.

Fwiw we constantly find it's parents more anxious than the kids and the parents who are ignorant of the safety measures.

If there is an issue, DISCUSS IT WITH THE LEADERS.

UK scouting are ok with non swimmers taking part in surfing activities (with the correct risk assessment for conditions, activity level and adult to child ratio). They wouldn't be if it was too dangerous.

The emphasis in the advice is on safety equipment and being able enough to swim in a bouyancy aid for 50m which 10 year old non swimmers are capable of.

As a scout leader, there’s some misinformation here. It’s 50 metres wearing the appropriate equipment, which may include a life jacket.

Ive taken scouts sailing, paddle boarding, canoeing and on inflatable courses on lakes.

Here’s the rules. If everyone is wearing a life jacket then it’s in a life jacket.

9.13.1.1
Members taking part in any water activity, i.e. those which take place on or in the water, must be able to demonstrate to a suitable person their ability to swim 50 metres in clothing and equipment appropriate to the activity (where a buoyancy aid or life jacket is worn for the activity this may be used for the demonstration) and keep afloat for five minutes. Anyone unable to meet these requirements is classified as a non-swimmer and must follow Rule 9.13.1.2.
9.13.1.2
A non-swimmer may take part in water activities, at the discretion of the person in charge, only if certain precautions are taken:

1. any non-swimmer must wear a lifejacket or buoyancy aid of approved design and be in the charge of an adult. This does not apply for swimming, paddling or activities near water
2. there must be no more than one non-swimmer in any craft, unless a one-to-one ratio is maintained i.e. one competent adult to one non-swimmer
3. in the case of single-handed craft this should only be on C or B1 Waters (see Rule 9.13.4) with supervision on a one-to-one basis i.e. one competent adult to one non-swimmer.
4. where non-swimmers are taking part in swimming activities (as defined in Rule 9.13.10), they must be under the direct supervision of an adult in the water. This must not exceed two non-swimmers to one adult.

With scouting guidance in mind there are two things the OP can do to help her son.

1. improve his swimming
2. get reassurance from the leaders by actually talking to them
3. volunteer to go on the trip too to improve adult to child ratios

I am not convinced the OP will do any of these because she's already decided 'its too dangerous' rather than listen to what the scout association themselves say on the subject.

If you understand the training and the risk assessments leaders have to do, it does ease the anxiety. And the anxiety has a tendency to be lead by parents not kids.

It sounds like you are making a lot of excuses for not teaching your dc an essential life skill.

The surfing will only be one activity and the camp itself will be fun but I wouldn't rule out surfing. Seems to me he now has an incentive to improve. He can get a lot better in a year.

If you don't want to take him swimming yourself canyou sit on the sidelines? At my pool over 8s can go in unaccompanied. He'd improve more with you helping him.

You can't blame covid. Allthe other kids have managed to swim. Mine included. Covid hasn't set them back.

This surprises me- are you sure you have all the facts? It's unusual to have a whole group camp that doesn't offer choices.

I don’t know how old you dc is but as others have said surfing is not necessarily only for strong swimmers, where we live the kids do surf activities from 5 years old and many will only just be starting swim lessons at that point and definitely can’t do open water swimming on their own, it doesn’t mean they can’t participate and enjoy it. All surf activities (like any activities) reflect it in the child/adult ratios

Have you spoken to the proper organising it to ask for proper details?

Also look at crash swimming courses, my DC missed lessons during covid but only about a year and have more than caught up and now overtaken their peers by doing a couple of crash courses as well as weekly lessons

Start swimming lessons there is lots of time between now and next summer. Even with COVID he should be able to swim at this age.
My three year old was born August 2020 and has had swimming lessons since he was 7 months old and the lessons started again. He is a confident swimmer now, with adult supervision obviously.
Swimming is and essential life skill.

Everything RedToothBrush said.

The leaders are volunteers. The group will no doubt fundraise towards the camp costs. Adding an activity doubles the number of leaders required and the costs.

There are steps you can take to improve the situation (talk to the leaders, volunteer, take child swimming) but please don't spoil it for the group and for the volunteer leaders if you're not prepared to put the effort in either.

By its very own nature, physical activities are never fully inclusive. DD can swim but won't go canoeing with the guides. Some of the girls don't like theme parks and some won't go to their ice skating or wall climbing trips.

There's always someone who is scared of heights, speed or don't swim well enough.

Also, you are making an excuse about covid. DC 9 can swim 50m easily and she's younger than scouts age. It does not take long to learn to swim 50m.

My kids had their swimming lessons delayed by covid. I remember going on holiday once it was allowed, they were 4 and 6, and they were both in rubber rings, being held the whole time. They started lessons right after. The next year the 7 year old was confidently swimming and could do breaststroke, front crawl and backstroke. The 5 year old was taking a bit longer to build stamina but he could swim, was really confident in the water and spent more time under the water than on top of it. This was 1 year of a half hour swimming lesson once a week.
You can make huge progress before the camp but try and get proper lessons unless you are confident that you can teach them correctly.

As you have said that there are long wait lists for swimming lessons, what about a bit of DIY practice by going to the pool with your DS? There are loads and loads of good videos on YouTube, Books and Apps for improving swim technique. You’ve nearly a year to improve his stamina, you can start really safe and slow and build up gradually, I’m not suggesting anything risky. Being a capable swimmer is a really important life skill.

(I will caveat this with saying getting a few lifesaving type classes in with a professional would also be amazingly beneficial to keeping him safe in the water.)

my dc did canoeing with the scouts, in the evenings.
if you didnt swim no doubt you didnt take part.

try and take your dc swimming more regularly perhaps?

Unless he has a disability that you haven’t mentioned your ds could be a strong and capable swimmer by the time surf camp comes around. It needs a bit of a “can do” attitude and allocating part of the household budget to some 1:1 lessons. If money is really tight perhaps you could ask family or friends for a lesson as a birthday or Christmas gift. It’s one of the greatest gifts they could give him.

Ask around the local gyms or other parents will know where to get a private lesson. At his age, and with you taking him to the pool a couple of times a week, he will probably only need ten or so lessons. Then practice, practice, practice. Do any of the pools near you offer an obstacle type course. I found they were great for water confidence.

Most schools offer a residential activity week in year 6/P7 which often involve water sports. If his school does this it will be so much more fun if he is confident in and around water.

You can sort this out by next summer. Happy swimming!

OP-I really think you ought to check with the group leader. It seems bad planning for a whole group camp to be focussed on a single activity like this.

I can understand you not wanting to send him if you fear for his safety in the water. But surely you would just think 'well this one's not for him, maybe next time.' Not everything can suit all people and surely if you send your child to Scouts you understand they will do 'risky' activities.

Also, I imagine surfing will only be part of the activities. If he doesn't do the surfing element he can still pitch a tent, light a fire, cook, join in with evening games etc.

My children's old primary school do a surfing session every year for Year 5 children. I doubt very much all the 9 and 10 year olds are strong swimmers but they have instructors, boundaries and safety equipment . I expect it would be the same for the Scout camp.

"But surely you would just think 'well this one's not for him, maybe next time.'"

No- if I understand correctly, this isn't a specific special interest camp. It's the whole group annual camp. Which should be as inclusive as possible.

But have they said he can't do it? I could be wrong but I got the impression that the Scout group would be happy to take him but his mum doesn't want him to go.