Are semi regular spontaneous all nighters ok in your marriage

[Aworldofwonder]

This is no big deal, just something I've been pondering over since a lunch yesterday with friends.

Nothing juicy btw sorry.

Three women let's call them Angela, Barbara and Catherine meet for lunch. Angela and Barbara both have kids and are married. The lunch has been arranged for ages, it was supposed to be dinner but there's sports on later that Barbara wants to watch. The other two women have not committed one way or another to joining her for sports watching.

Angela lives significantly further away from the city than the other two. She had suggested meeting at a more midpoint but nothing was agreed on. On the day there is a problem with the trains from her direction so she drives her car. Her DH had offered to drive her but with DC commitments she would have been late for lunch. The other two come on public transport so they are drinking wine.

After lunch Angela mentions in passing how lovely the lunch was and how she's disappointed she didn't get to drink wine as she was looking forward to it. Barbara suggests Angela drive to the area where Barbara lives to watch the sports as Angela has family living there and can dump the car and stay locally overnight and then will be able to enjoy drinks with Barbara and Barbara's DH.

Angela says she won't do that as she hasn't arranged it with her husband and she would be upset with him if it was the other way around. Angela thinks this is a selfish suggestion. Herself and DH spend overnights away from each other but they are planned in advance

Barbara says that is unreasonable that either spouse deciding to have a spontaneous overnight should be discouraged as one parent can manage well. She says it happens on both sides four or five times a year in her marriage. Barbara thinks Angela is controlling for suggesting she would be annoyed at her DH.

Some extra information;

Angela and her DH both work long hours outside of the home, they do more early daytime fitness related hobby stuff and are not prone to late nights anyway. They are both focused on their careers and have less free time. They are happy together.

Barbara's husband works long hours outside of the home but Barbara works very hard in the home with a larger family and is very busy. They do a lot of socialising, drink much more and also have a happy marriage.

What are your thoughts?
YABU : A spontaneous night out where you leave your partner to do bedtime on top of the whole day and ruin plans for the next morning because you missed out on some alcoholic beverages is not an automatic privilege. .
YANBU : A marriage is not a prison, both should be prioritising keeping their social lives going elsewhere. Plans are not set in stone. It's controlling to not allow your spouse to switch things up.

Expecting your partner to cover parenting at your whim is unbelievably selfish. Everyone deserves a break, but those breaks should be mutually agreed since they require the other parent to assume more responsibility.

I often see it labeled controlling when people expect a night out to be upon mutual agreement, but I really think it’s the other way around. The person who leaves the other parent with the children by default is the one being controlling. The person with the children is the one having their freedom limited and choices curtailed.

I'm confused why you're so interested in others opinions. I'll guess your Angela or possibly Catherine who didn't really need a mention. Are you annoyed Barbara called you controlling or are you wondering if you are?

Barbara's not suggesting anything outrageous and it's something I could well see myself or a partner doing occasionally, the key point would be we'd ask each other and not just tell them or simply do it. I think both would probably say yes, go ahead.
Angela not unreasonable to say no. She might even find her OH wouldn't mind but she would. If he says yes, he might ask for a similar 'favour' and she wouldn't like it. Lots of people don't like having things thrown at them and Angela is one of them.
B is OK to say 'Oh I wouldn't want to live like that' . She is right to say A is a bit controlling however she didn't need to spell it out. It really depends how it's framed. Presumably they are good friends and it's not caused too many issues.
I suspect if Angela asked her OH if she could have stayed out he'd say "you should have rang me. I wouldn't have minded'. I also suspect he would not have asked himself because he knows what your like.

This one is really about shared expectations. No right or wrong. I would prefer my own bank account. I don't share passwords and I dong want other people sharing my phone...for other couples those things are fine.
Has Angela got the hump?

I think Angela is a coward for using her husband as an excuse when she just didn't want to do it.

Barbara is very bossy though.

It very much depends on the ages of the kids, which was missing from the op. My dd is 3 and I've only had two nights away from her, her whole life - they were very much planned, with both dh and dd being forewarned and prepared. I can't imagine being happy with a spontaneous night away for a good few years.

Even before kids, it just wasn't something dh and I did much. We are very close/codependent and like to sleep together, even if it means coming home very late. That doesn't make either of us controlling ffs: dh knows I wouldn't bat an eyelid if he wanted to stay at his mate's after watching football on the other side of town or something - he's had enough opportunities - but he would rather take three night buses than sleep in someone's spare bed.

Some people just really love their own home and their spouse's company.

It's fine to just want to snuggle at home under your own duvet instead of at a mate's place. It's hardly an exciting mini break, is it?

Bet Barbara's husband is playing away btw

@JudgeRudy I'm Angela and yes I'm annoyed Barbara called me controlling as I am surprised it's seen as the normal to just stay out all night in order to stay drinking.

I was seeing if I'm in the minority though

This was my opinion. My friend seemed so taken aback.

It's the norm to stay out on a one off here and there occasion if you've travelled miles, having a nice time with friends, wish you'd have had a few drinks with them, and just a simple stay over would result in that. It's normal. It's not people cheating or disrespecting their marriage or neglecting their kids, it's just a nice night with friends. But only if you want those things. If you don't, then just say you don't rather than blaming it on your DH, I think that's what people are saying.

It would be fine in our marriage. I wouldn’t mind and neither would he.
However if I didn’t want to stay out drinking I’d probably use DH as an excuse

I don't.

I'd left that morning to go to work in my business and was then out for the rest of the day. I don't think it's fair to decide that because I haven't been able to drink alcohol he has to do the night shift and the following morning too. He's essentially getting no break after a week of hard work.

I think it’s absolutely fine to have spontaneous nights out and I think it’s quite common in most couples.

You don’t need 2 parents looking after the kids in the evening and as long as the other partner had no plans, then it’s fine.

As a grown woman, I would not like a curfew or have to go home earlier than I’d like to, simply because my DP didn’t like me staying out without him agreeing to it in advance.

What isn’t fine is when you hear of people staying out and not letting their partners know though.
That is beyond disrespectful.

A quick text to say X has asked me to stay out and I’m having such a good time that I’d like to. Is that ok with you.
And then if the partner had plans in the morning they can’t just say what time they need to leave by and to make sure they’re back by then.

If it was every weekend then I’d agree but a one off is absolutely fine.

They’re his kids and it’s normal to look after your kids by yourself sometimes.
He’d enjoy the time alone with them.

This.

Not okay in my marriage.

Pre planned nights out 100% okay.

Otherwise it would impact too much on the other plans for the weekend, even if those plans were just downtime together.

So if you want to go out and be out all night, that's 100% okay, but a spontaneous lunch in to overnight? Nope.

And neither of us are controlling.

Not ok here on either side. DSs would be upset at loss of family time which is precious and insufficient. Prearranged absolutely fine and does happen. Once DSs are a bit older (7 and 10) and don’t appear in the middle of the night and wake early then I’m sure things will move again.

A simple text or phone call to him you'd have known it was fine, because when you got home he said oh I thought you'd have stayed. It was you assuming you shouldn't stay out because you wouldn't be happy with your DH staying out.

@Aworldofwonder I agree with you. I know you said your DH wouldn’t mind, but I would also consider an unplanned all nighter rather selfish with young children at home.

The fact that you had to drive further than your friends and the judgement about your marriage from Barbara would annoy me and I’d be leaving it a long time before meeting up with them again.

I think Angela and Barbra are both being unreasonable throwing around comments like 'selfish' and 'controlling' about each others relationships. My DH or vice versa would be fine with an impromptu all nighter so long as there weren't any significant plans being disrupted the next day.
I was going to say it sounded like Angela just didn't want to do it and so should just say so and not try and blame it on her husband. This is one of my husbands particular bugbears, when guys blame their 'missus' for not being able to do something when actually what they mean is they don't want to, butbits easier to blame someone else.

Yes but in the eight years we have been together he has never requested it. He goes out regularly, at least once a week but always comes home. It's never a day and night.

Maybe that is why I wouldn't like it; it would be very out of character for him.

I remember once when DC was a newborn. I had a dinner out (with newborn) and these same two friends. It was out where they both live. I didn't drive at the time and DH was busy with his other DC. After me travelling over there on the train and arranging to stay with my family member they both cancelled at short notice. Barbara's reason was that her DH had been out on a session all night, only arrived home at lunchtime and gone straight to bed so she couldn't leave the DC with him.

I was upset and my DH was too as I had been nervous about the trip on two trains which was now a wasted trip. He was quite incredulous about Barbara's reasoning saying "he was out last night, that hardly gives him a hall pass for the next day if she already had plans".

He generally doesn't take advantage of me. I don't think it's weird to not want to say; hey my social engagement didn't go as planned so I'm going to stay out for the night now to get my alcohol quota. Please apologize to DC for me.

@meganorks I said it would be selfish of ME towards MY dh. I know Barbara's arrangement works well for them, they have very different lifestyles to us and are also happy.

I think it depends on the couple. We are more like the Angela example, quite homely, spend most of our free time with our family/as a couple and anything outside of that is fairly well planned but I haven’t done an overnight with friends since I’ve had my second child who is now 8. I know people like Barbara though and if they’re happy with it that’s fine.

I was thrown by your title; I thought you were going to refer to an all night sex session with DH and how regularly was reasonable.

ANYWAY I think a few glasses of wine over lunch is a completely different kettle of fish to an evening “session”. I love boozy lunches with the girls but deep down, for evening nights out with other couples around, I do like my DH around too, it’s more fun!

DH would positively encourage me to do this but he is very mindful that having dc has impacted my social life much more than his and I don't go out very much! It would, perhaps, be a different story if I was doing it all the time. DH has had a couple of spontaneous all nighters- usually to the last train being cancelled. He typically stays with his parents or brother when that happens. It's never bothered me but, again, he doesn't take the piss and it's not a regular thing.

It doesn't sound like Angela's husband is being controlling. It sounds like Angela decided she didn't want to stay over without it being planned in advance and Barbara decided to make personal remarks about Angela's marriage because she didn't agree.

If Angela's husband were really controlling he probably wouldn't want her going on these outings at all.

For what it's worth I would be fine with my husband staying over somewhere if it was planned in advance but I would be quite pissed off if he did it spontaneously. And I certainly wouldn't do this without running it past him, but I probably wouldn't want to do it anyway because I don't like staying overnight somewhere on the spur of the moment and without having an overnight bag with me.

I wouldn't be happy if my husband did this, but wouldn't mind if it had been pre arranged. I think my husband would say the same. I don't like spending too much time away from my children and husband, as he works shifts and I value our family time at the weekend.

I didn't vote because I think the truth is somewhere in between. I think that it really depends on what's going on the next day.

My DP would never be happy about me spontaneously staying the night because he wouldn't want to unexpectedly so solo childcare for bedtime and morning. He's ok when it's prearranged. I would be annoyed if he was cancelling plans to stay overnight or if we'd not had much time as a family during the week because I like spending time with my family, but I would be perfectly happy with it if I had plans for just me and DC already (say, I was taking them to a birthday party) or if we'd had time together in the week.