To think that if managers have all decided not to work on Fridays any more they should signal this to their deputies?

[Thepeopleversuswork]

Wondering if I'm being precious and if not how to deal with this diplomatically.

I'm one level down from senior management at a relatively small (c30 person) company. There are five top dogs and about six people at my level. The people at my level do most of the day to day running of the company. It's a client-facing business. I run most of my client accounts more or less autonomously and that side of things is fine.

Generally I like my job and feel able to do it competently with limited management oversight. But post COVID I have noticed that virtually nobody at senior management level is ever available on Fridays. Emails are not responded to, phone calls are ignored. All of the senior management are completely non-responsive on Fridays. None of this is ever official and nothing has formally been said about it: never booked in as leave or flagged, it just happens and isn't questioned.

On a week by week basis this isn't a huge problem. These are busy people and they don't have much time for the day to day "in the weeds" element of the job. And I'm paid well and trusted to get on with my job. But I'm starting to feel increasingly resentful that me and a handful of other people are effectively running the company one day a week and essentially acting up as management without any support or training or even guidance without this being reflected in our pay or responsibility.

There have been an increasing number of incidents recently where I've had to deal with situations which are definitely over my "pay grade" including a legal threat (and there's no legal department), a payroll issue and two sensitive HR issues (there's no HR department). Plus a lot of my having to deal with issues to do with clients whose accounts I don't work on and seriously winging it.

I've flagged this on a couple of occasions to management and said I don't feel particularly well supported to deal with things like payroll and HR and have just been told I'm sufficiently senior I'm trusted to deal with it and management will always be around if I can't (but they're not).

Is this just a normal part of being at this level in a company? Should I be asking for these to be reflected in my formal job description and for my pay to be adjusted? Am I within my rights to point out that if I and a few others are basically running the company one day out of five our roles should reflect that?

I've never been this senior in a company before so I don't know if I'm BU or not.

How the fuck can a little 30 person company have 5 top dogs and 6 more at the next rung down? Can't anybody manage a team?

Eg in my org top dog has maybe 8 reports. Each of those will have at least 4/5 under them, who will each have another 3-6....

Of course they are fucking off on fridays, they've not enough to do. The 6 of you could report to 1 or 2 of them and you could get rid of easily 3 expensive wastes of space.

There should be at least one of them contactable at all times.

What would happen if there was an accident, a fire or an unannounced inspection from a regulator?

I think the issue here is that you are dealing with any matters that arise on Fridays so they have no reason to change things.

So just stop doing it.

Also agree with PP that the structure sounds extremely odd.

It's a fair question and it's not necessarily about reporting lines etc.

Seniority is on the basis of how much business you bring in, basically. So the "top dogs" are people who bring business in. They could literally never show up to the office and never do a stroke of work but if they're bringing in multiple lucrative contracts that's pretty much where the responsibility ends. It's all about their network.

They also will have rough strategic oversight of what the teams do on these contract: they will choose teams and define scope and goals and value of the contracts and the people at my level and below are the ones who get on with actually delivering it.

It may sound odd but its not unusual in this sector.

It's not really the sort of business where there would be an unannounced visit from a regulator. Fire/accident would be dealt with by the people who own the office space.

But yes IMO they should at least be contactable.

@Thepeopleversuswork it sounds like, if they are bringing all money in, they ARE doing 'a stroke of work'.

If it doesn't work for you, why don't you try moving to their part of the business?

I am, of course.

Part of the issue is that the job I do doesn't allow a great deal of time for anything other than keeping the lights on.

Ha, do you work at my work?

the bosses (very similar type of ‘boss’ role) were keen to get everyone back in the office after Covid, they seemed to think nobody was working otherwise.

it’s settled into a bit of flexibility but most people are home on Fridays and it has very much emerged that the reason they think nobody does work when they’re at home is cos they bloody don’t!

Can you look at it another way and use the day to take a bit easier without bosses checking up on you? Forward anything you don’t want to deal with. They aren’t going to pay you more so do a bit less?

It doesn't work like that, sadly. If things aren't picked up on Friday they will be picked up on Monday and lead to bollockings.

Who’s going to bollock you? If anyone does that is the moment you raise the job description.

I can make a good guess about what industry your in! Over Christmas or breaks, is there an on-call roster to manage a client crisis or similar? Could something like this work on a Friday?

Could you speak to a line manager about possible solutions? Obviously the senior managers are working super hard on a Friday to bring in business which is why they can't take your calls 🤔 You're concerned about the company's reputation if you make the wrong call so to mitigate against that risk, could one of the senior managers be on call on Friday to advise, if needed?

If you're one rung down from senior management and focused on implementation, I really do understand how hard it is to find time to bring in business.

One way to get started is to upsell, and make sure your client is aware of other services the company offers like training or chat to them about what might be coming up next for them.

Can you take a series of Fridays as booked leave? Then come back to the inevitable chaos. This may make the point for you

Very few people work Friday afternoons in my job. You need to push back OP or nothing will change.

Is it possible to forward things from your desk to the "top dogs" via email (so there's a paper trail) and "assume" they're dealt with because you haven't been told they're not working?

I.E. a client calls you on a Friday asking for X to be resolved. You say, "no problem, I will ask Top Dog A to resolve that for you and then contact you once it's done; if you don't hear from them with a resolution by X time, please call them on their mobile which is XYZ."

Then send Top Dog A an email outlining the client's request and saying that you'll leave it in their capable hands.

If the client contacts you again to say it's not been done and they can't get hold of Top Dog A, send another email, copying in the other top dogs and ask if any of them have heard from Top Dog A as you're concerned they're not responding to emails or calls from either you or the client.

When balls start being dropped, people will need to show up more and you can clearly show you've done your best to get the problem dealt with, but that essentially you're just the messenger and if the top dogs weren't working they should have let you know that was the case.

I work at a similarly sized and structured company at the same level as you, and I would hate this.

Is there no way you can forward the issue on and let the client know the senior manager will be in touch on X date? This is what I do on the very rare occasion my boss is uncontactable. But he would not want or expect me to attempt to sort it out myself (with bigger budget or legal issues for example). It does sound like your bosses are dumping their responsibilities on you and framing it as “trusting” you. It’s not right and it’s not in the company’s best interest either.

If leaving things until Monday isn’t an option, and if you’d be ok to deal with the issues if properly compensated and recognised for doing so, it sounds like you’ll just have to have a frank discussion with your boss and let them know. If the company is growing, maybe they’ll be able to change your role?

I genuinely thought you were talking about actual dogs for a moment.

I need to be allowed to only pretend to work Fridays today has been intense! However, I do try and be less available on Fridays so I can get actual work done, whereas the rest of the week tends to be supporting my team with theirs. So they might think I am not available, but I need to be unavailable sometimes

I am senior management and I block out my day on a Friday to deal with all the stuff that I'm not able to get done the rest of the week when I bring pulled from pillar to post. My direct reports know I will always respond to them if they need me but then they know not to contact me unless it's urgent.
It's an integral part of my week and I get a huge amount of work done.
I guess it depends on your situation and industry but just because I'm not readily contactable doesn't mean I'm not running things. Quite the opposite.

Not sure how to deal with it diplomatically but agree it is unacceptable, especially having to deal with HR matters.

I do get this and I can completely relate to the need to catch up: it’s so difficult to get actual work done when there’s a slew of meetings and calls going on all the time. They also worry pretty hard Monday to Thursday so I don’t begrudge them a bit of down time.

I suppose what I resent is the sneakyness of it. It’s the fact all of them do it but without informing us that it’s happening or giving us any handovers of the critical stuff that we could have to deal with while they are not responding. A bit like they are bunking off.

If there was a rota so one person was working at least we would all knew who was “on call” at least we would know who to go to. It’s like this corporate in joke/secret as if they have agreed it amongst themselves and not bothered telling any of the people on whom the burden lands.

Who actually does the day to day managerial stuff the other four days of the week? They don't sound like they do that much of it while they're around. They've been made managers on the strength of being good at other things.

They have and it’s a fair point. There’s one person who has a sort of chief of staff job who deal with things like contracts, staffing issues, timetables, invoices and unofficial HR stuff but he is one of the people who is never available on Friday. Hence me dealing with stuff like HR and legal when they are well outside my scope.

Most HR and Legal things that only arise on Friday could surely wait until Monday?

Ah ok. So it's specifically that person then? But I'd agree with a pp, most stuff like that wouldn't be urgent would it?

But these people do not sound like management from what you say, they bring in business so sounds like they are sales staff rather than management.

What do you think they should be available for on Fridays besides making it seem fairer on you? If you need one of them for HR issues then you email them about it and they can deal with it on Monday, it's above your pay grade so to speak so pass it on and tell whoever asked you that you've done so.