To wonder about DNA testing of house spiders in isolated old buildings

[DragonKaoos]

If the house spider originally came from outside the UK, it might have first arrived in castles and stately homes inside packing crates.

So, are the spiders in castles and stately homes the direct descendants of spiders that arrived in those buildings a few hundred years earlier?

If they did DNA tests on house spiders in different castles would they find that they were genetically diverse because of being in those castles for centuries? By which I mean, do spiders in Balmoral have DNA that’s different to the DNA of spiders in Windsor castle?

The Romans also gave us ground elder.

Stately homes and castles are, if anything, less likely to have isolated populations than other houses. The aristocracy - having no jobs to keep them in one place - spent all their time moving between their own multiple houses and visiting each others'. And taking huge trunks and cases of clothes (and spiders) with them. In Tudor times it was not unknown to travel with all your furniture and the house windows when moving from one residence to another for the season.

I miss bison gate, threads started off pretty normal, then took a sharp turn made me laugh

I did not expect this thread to be so interesting and thought provoking

Non-indigenous you say.

<grabs flamethrower>

I was planning to go to Italy on holiday next year. Any large spiders native to Greece by any chance?

more likely in the wine and olives destined for Biggus Dickus in his hardship posting in the outreaches of the Roman Empire.

He has a wife, you know …

First, identify the species, because we still haven't ironed out whether our house spiders are Eratigena atrica, saeva or duellica, or a hybrid...

I think they should all be asked to offer a sample and supply mug shots, identify themselves clearly and state their business.

I am currently worried about the whereabouts of Jeff, who introduced himself last night on the sofa, examined the crap DP keeps on his side of the sofa (proving himself as wide as an eraser, or longer than a blister segment on a pack of pills), and then sprinted off to investigate the contents of my Kallax unit.

If you see him, can you tell him to report back, he has two days left on his visa and if he hasn't found residence and spousal support by then, he's out. Spiders here have to earn their keep (And the residents are doing well!) but visitors get a very short pass!

If the book or the movie Charlotte’s Web is anything to go by then probably not. Didn’t the baby spiders, once hatched, spin a little parachute web and then catch the wind and get blown far and wide? Do all spiders do that?

Great question, OP. I'd love to know the answer.

On a related note, Ancestry has recently rolled out DNA testing for pets... 🙌

I wonder if they've evolved and how different they are now from their original spider colonizers? I'm thinking of how the finches on the different Galapogos islands have developed different sized beaks, etc, according to their different food sources and conditions. I'm going from memory here of a programme on BBC 2 on finches, as I'm too sleepy to Google the correct info.

I wonder how our spiders may have evolved? Also, how big might they get given optimum conditions? Were they huge millions of years ago, like some birds?

I think it's entirely possible.

The is a species of mosquito exclusive to the London underground so surely the spiders in isolated castles could speciate too?

Family web, not family tree @Foggyfoggyfoggy

What about the spiders in the underground?!

I think I love this thread

😆 exactly this.

Well that would explain why the ones in my bath are so fucking huge!

I have enjoyed reading all your answers. Thank you.

Drinking the water by my bed and discovering a spider in it is my worst nightmare!

It's threads like this that keep me coming back to Mumsnet again and again!

@Notmyfirstusername I lived in Greece for years and can honestly say I never once saw a spider in the house only lizards and mosquitoes!

Just googled that one - ugghhh, it bites mice, rats and humans. I’m never taking a tube again.

I did know about the little feckers inhabiting the London marshes and malaria being endemic up until the 20th century.

When I worked for a major supermarket there were some weird creatures in with the bananas. Once there was a lovely wee reptile. You’d see massive spiders scuttling off, I wonder if they have mated with uk spiders so that we now have the huge ones that I see daily.

Spider nerds actively go out looking for 'freebies'... in fruit from supermarkets, plants from garden centres...

If you find someone who appears to be weirdly peering at fruit or at plants... its probably a spider nerd.

The good thing is if you join the spider nerd group (british spider identification) ... they will rehome any weird spiders you find on your bananas and grapes and so on.

Hybridisation - in spiders, rare, it has happened with the house spider group but generally speaking, as theres a high risk of death when it comes to getting jiggy, and each species has its own routine, they need to be very closely related and behave in similar ways, even before you consider whether the DNA allows for hybridisation. You can't cross say a tarantula with a garden spider any more than you could cross a cat with a dog... even if both were willing!

@ImustLearn2Cook nope, whilst its a clever way of distributing young, lots of species don't do this - the young just have to run for it, and quickly because for many species once they're hatched theres only a day or so before they become cannibalistic!

Sizes.. unlike a lot of arthropods that went through a period of being absolutely fucking massive... spiders haven't really or... rather... that period is now!

There are no true spider fossils/evidence of anything significantly bigger than what we currently have in either the tarantulas or the orb-weavers (though, not in the UK!) - there are some scientific oopsies that turned out to be aquatic and one or two fakes though.

It's pretty hard being a giant arthropod - their manner of respiration is not anywhere near as effective as ours and exoskeletons are a clunky and cumbersome thing to move around, and they require moulting for growth... which if you're a labrador sized spider is a bit of a sod and means you can't eat for two months and will sit around all squishy and vulnerable, unable to move or defend yourself for several days each time...

So these things limit maximum size (and much more so on land than in water), even if we had a much more oxygen rich atmosphere than we do now - which we did in the Carboniferous, the giant arthropod era, between 26% and sometimes over 30% vs the current 21%, it still needs other factors...

Mostly, a lack of predators and unlike the Carboniferous period, there are now lots of birds who love a nice insecty snack. Not sure what would take out an Arthropleura though... a sort of land-rover sized milipede!

This seems to be my rabbit-hole of the day... :D disappears down it

@BashfulClam Now I’m wondering what lives in the roof at Tesco!

I’d say try not to think about it!

❤️ this thread