to think the UK has become awful?

[ma1formed]

I can't pinpoint when, but it feels like everything that was once pretty good is now quite awful

So expensive
No doctors
Uni costs for kids insane
Terrible rent / can't buy a house
Everyone seems quite unpleasant or racist

Is it just me?

Labour aren't going to tax the rich more or scrap tuition fees or halt NHS privatisation or get rid of draconian laws..... I at a loss regarding what they're offering?

There are no decent jobs available.

I suppose it depends on your definition of a decent job. I make around £50k driving trucks in the construction sector and it cost me about £2k and four days training. Pretty stress free compared to my office days too. Had six people offering me jobs when I left last employer a month ago and wasn't even looking (I left to work with a mate who's doing really well and wants somebody he knows/trusts to progess into running operations as the business grows).

It's even easier to pass now as they're so desperate for drivers - you can now go straight to driving an arctic without first getting a license for driving smaller rigid vehicles and they've scrapped the reversing part of test and the bit where you demonstrate how to hook up a trailer (which I think is madness as in theory you could end up doing your first reversing manoeuvre in a fully loaded 44 ton/65ft long truck in the city centre on the first day of your new job! ).

Our batcher/plant supervisor is 23 and on £50k with no student loan debt and my mate's son is around the same age and earns £65k operating a tower crane (young black guy from a rough part of Birmingham who probs wouldn't fit in well at the typical office). Guys driving the arctics are on good money - my mate earns £65k delivering chocolate and works 4on/4off as he's meant to do four 12 hour days but it's usually only 8-10 hours and 2-3 of that is chilling while waiting to offload

A lot of English people seem to feel these jobs are below them so they go and spend tens of thousands on a degree and then go into a job paying half what the above examples make. A lad that started work at 18 will probs already have moved out of his parents by this age and won't have the crazy amount of debt.

A lot of Europeans have figured this out and when I was at Cemex (who only use contractors) most of the operators were Romanian and Indian. The English ones tended to just be one man bands who had progressed from being a driver to a truck operator but they were mainly middle aged and mostly just running the one truck making between £45-60k. The Indian guys often had a few trucks and were often working with cousins/brothers etc. Usually driving Range Rovers, expensive Audis, etc. Didn't look like they were feeling the pinch too much.

thats quite a broad presumption you have used , @ma1formed
what analysis, context, and examples do you have that confirm your points preferably, not main stream media articles, more preferably university based research type articles etc ?

@TorqueWrench Im a lawyer and make £61k but because I'm a lawyer of a specific sort I have to be in London, so I more or less scrape by each month.

I can change jobs, yes, but been applying for two years and as I'm quite niche, I haven't got anywhere. After 10 years education at a cost of £70k I've only just paid off, I am genuinely considering just stopping being a lawyer.

It all seems pointless!

The UK is one of the least racist countries on earth.

Is it? By comparison with which other countries, precisely? By what criteria do you measure this, and how exactly do you know?

but if your based in london, and only experience a small slice of the uk life in general, and considering its london to begin with not excatly known for being cheap, then its quite a broad presumption to make overall.

@Hawkins0009

My post says "I don't know why but it feels like........".

You're asking me analysis and research? To prove what? That I really feel the way I just said?

Lol. Calm Down.

But it is OP's lived experience in London which is part of the UK. They cannot be omnipresent. Try living on £61k in Edinburgh or Bristol. Try being a lawyer on £61k in Hull, Lancaster or Worthing. OPs situation is very, very common these days.

There is research out there about levels of racism by country. I'll try and find it. There are various indicators and one is inter race marriage.

We are categorically one of the least racist countries worldwide.

More generally, yes some things are shit but the media, and hence most people only focus on the bad stuff. Plenty is good too.

to be fair op i did miss read your opening line, my apologies, but your presumptions were quite leading rather than more trying to ascertain key points without influencing the outcome to your predetermined conclusions.

I do think that but I also think its the same everywhere. I wouldn't risk moving away until I knew for sure a place for better and that's impossible.

Here you go: https://www.standard.co.uk/news/world/most-racist-countries-survey-study-discrimination-uk-b1077399.html

@ma1formed
i would suggest, dont stop being a lawyer whos' to say what promotions etc you may achieve

yes some things are shit but the media, and hence most people only focus on the bad stuff. Plenty is good too.

I can understand why OP is complaining about the things they find awful, rather than the things they are content or happy with.

Im not really even complaining. More observing. Objectively I think it's been a downhill slide for 15 years. Across almost every metric

sometimes it can also depend on how the metrics are built and whats included etc and if the metrics have always had the same build or if the metrics themselves have been altered over the years, that can give a false positive, or a false negative etc

@TorqueWrench A lot of English people seem to feel these jobs are below them so they go and spend tens of thousands on a degree and then go into a job paying half what the above examples make. A lad that started work at 18 will probs already have moved out of his parents by this age and won't have the crazy amount of debt.

I agree some people do, but those people who are picky often end up not doing anything meaningful.

Do you think some of those 'English people' you refer to yearn to go into a particular career because - for example - they have an inquisitive problem solving mind such as a scientist, or really enjoy mediating such as a counsellor or a lawyer, or caring for others and end up in healthcare. As much as I often envy long distance lorry drivers sometimes for the scenery they must see, it is not something many people could do because they may perceive no room for future personal growth.

@ma1formed totally agree. I don't know who to vote for but I vote every day with where I decide to spend my money. The UK going downhill started with thatcher and even though labour got in in 97, blair's heroine was thatcher. The campaign against corbyn was terrible and there was much witch hunting. The thing about corbyn is that the policies he had are the ones that we all need to start to make everything more equitable.
Also Private Eye is a great read - holds all politicians to account.
They did a report on whistle blowing in the NHS I think in 2011 and if their recommendations or concers had been taken note of then there wouldn't have been Letby or possibly even Allit (can't remember when she was).

Check out this website below my comments. Up to date real life price comparisons. A lot more detailed than I've copied below, but have a pay around with country and city comparisons. It's interesting..

• there have always been potholes

• there have always been rude twats

• whichever party is on power, government is shit

• there is more taxed than PAYE (can't find who posted that, but how niäve to believe that

*the uk has risen to 8th largest manufacting output total in the world, having just overtaken France (not bad for a small island?) at £180B per annum

Yes, it feels shit, dreary etc, but I don't think it's any worse than 40 years or so ago.

https://www.numbeo.com/cost-of-living/compare_countries_result.jsp?country1=United+Kingdom&country2=United+States

Versus US

Consumer Prices in United States are 19.4% higher than in United Kingdom (without rent)
Consumer Prices Including Rent in United States are 30.6% higher than in United Kingdom
Rent Prices in United States are 55.9% higher than in United Kingdom
Restaurant Prices in United States are 9.1% higher than in United Kingdom
Groceries Prices in United States are 46.0% higher than in United Kingdom

Versus Denmark

Indices DifferenceConsumer Prices in Denmark are 23.9% higher than in United Kingdom (without rent)Consumer Prices Including Rent in Denmark are 16.0% higher than in United KingdomRent Prices in Denmark are 1.9% lower than in United KingdomRestaurant Prices in Denmark are 28.0% higher than in United KingdomGroceries Prices in Denmark are 27.8% higher than in United Kingdom

Imagine giving more of a shit about this than kids starving or the amount of people living in tents in our cities. Couldnae be me

I agree. I'm and old bird and I remember things being better than this even though we had less.

Nothing functions properly. Inadequate police, roads are wrecked, housing, prisons, business and commerce. Trying to get anything done properly is impossible as no-one does their job properly and we can't even leave for another country without jumping through hoops of fire due to brexit.

All the things that make life half way pleasurable has been eroded away. I'm in survival mode only and have been for years and people are vicious nasty bastards now.

Not having the rivers and beaches covered in sewage and poo makes them a helluva lot better.

Scotland is the only place I am willing to swim at the beach. It is unsafe to do so right now in England. It is disgustingly polluted.

Sounds like you live in an area where public funding is working. I'm entering my second year on a waiting list for medical treatment, keeping me in an area where rents are going up by an average of 40%, the nice cafes are closing because people can't afford to use them, and our local swimming pool has been closed for the past five yrs.

Hey OP I agree 100% with everything you've said especially the disappointing lack of an opposition party (more like a thoroughly agreeing with the Tories on every policy party) I will be voting for my local independent candidate or possibly Green when it comes to the next election.

I desperately want the Tories out but what's the point of Labour if they just want to do the same but with a red badge.

Also I think people who are not from ethnic or religious minorities shouldn't really be arguing how "not racist" the UK is nowadays. I think that's really the call of people who have experienced systemic racism to make. And we may well be less racist than other countries but the metric should be is the country less racist then it was 10 years ago?

I'm also very lucky at 40 that even though I came from a working class single parent background I had a free uni education and mostly cheap rent and could afford a house (with my DH) at 30. Now I have a son and despair that even though on paper we are middle class (although still a 5 figure household income so maybe not mumsnet middle class) he's going to struggle 10x more than I did with education and housing so God knows what kids from proper working class backgrounds now can even aspire to. :/

This country really is going to shit, I also wonder do rich folk not get worried too, I mean its still their local beaches covered in shit and you can't buy yourself out of climate change if your villa is on fire or your favourite pacific island is under water. (I'd also worry about being a target if riots kick off from a cost of living crisis)

They are actually given that they set tax policy.

Thats why we get back less than 30% of what we earn as a higher earner with children.

This is a huge problem because it destroys aspiration.

Why work more if you get so little back?

That incentive comes from the Govt via its tax policies.

Freezing tax bands for example was a massive increase in taxes.

40% rate (currently at £50k) is absurdly low because it has not been allowed to grow with inflation. If it had, it would be £82k today.

Thats what making income earners feel poorer.

We get far less return for the work we put in.

And yes, this is a big problem.