Is it you driving in the middle lane of the motorway or outside lane on a dual carriage way?

[muchalover]

Nobody is a perfect driver, including me.

But, why do people drive in the middle lane when they could easily pull in and stop the chaos they are causing behind them? Or pull in instead of driving in the outside lane of a dual carriageway when there is a large gap. On the M25 much of seems to be a fancy dual carriageway with 3 empty inside lanes. Why?

It's like advertising you're a crap driver and not willing to pay attention.

Or am I being unreasonable?

I stay in the outside lane often as I’m constantly overtaking people on the middle lane, no point going back to the middle lane for 1 second before coming out to the outside lane again.

It is far more dangerous for everyone to be constantly switching lanes gievn the speed we all drive at.

The rules around moving back into the middle or first lane were written for when everyone adhered to the speed limit. when somebody does not adhere to the speed limit then the rules are thrown out imho. Anybody who is going beyond the speed limit has no voice on this issue as far as I am concerned.

I do move into the middle lane when a Porsche wanting to do 100mph comes up behind me though - I’m not THAT much of an arse.

It’s generally accepted as ok in queues. It can happen naturally with flow of traffic.

but the example that will get dangerous is - you move to the left to turn off at maybe 60 because middle lane hogger was going slow in the middle, only to have some one unexpectedly behind you doing 70 - that person is undertaking and would get points if caught or be responsive for accidents/deaths, even tho middle lane hogger was involved in the lead up to the accident and oblivious to what’s going on around them.

I find middle lane hoggers (and it’s been demonstrated here) lack the ability to think more than a few steps ahead. Ie It’s safe for me here in the middle lane.

I do this too. Daily in fact. I did it 3 times on the M3 this morning.

I must confess if the motorway is relatively quiet (ie very few other cars about just the odd speedster at 100mph) to playing donuts with the lone car in the middle lane. Overtake without exceeding the speed limit in the outside lane, indicate, move over, indicate move to inside, slow without braking, until the middle lane car has gone past, then repeat until the middle lane errant gets the hint.

I don’t get the point of slowing down to let the middle lane hogger overtake you again? Just carry on in lane 1 after overtaking and leave them behind. They have probably barely registered you’re even on the road.

I find middle lane hoggers (and it’s been demonstrated here) lack the ability to think more than a few steps ahead

i think that’s the issue with a lot of drivers now. They can’t look ahead and plan they drive in a very reactive way. See the comments about smart motorways (which I hate!) if someone is leaving a safe stopping gap and paying attention to the road ahead then everyone should be able to react to what happens in front of them safely. The issues comes when people aren’t paying attention to what’s ahead until the last second and then having to take dramatic action to react.

it never fails to amaze me though the lengths people will go to to come up with reasons why the rules of the road don’t apply to them!

'I'm not that much of an arse'... just make up the rules as I go along maybe?

😅

For those that don't notice how are you driving "with due care and ATTENTION"?

For those that drive over the limit because "safety" WTF?

For those that find pulling in and out around traffic too much effort - that's what driving is. Manoeuvering your vehicle safely to not impede the flow of traffic AND follow the highway code.

You are making other people compensate for your poor skills. You negatively impact on peoples quality of life. You create tension and frustration in others and THAT leads to accidents.

I don't understand at all.

I don't understand either Op. If everyone followed the law and the Highway Code we'd all be safer, and have a better understanding of what to expect from other drivers. Driving and behaviour on the roads is getting progressively worse, and some of the answers here demonstrate why. It's such a pity because we're all driving a potentially lethal piece of equipment, so you'd think everyone would want to be as safe as possible. Instead so many think it's OK to make up rules to suit themselves. Deciding to be that driver trying to set others right is so dangerous. Keep to the speed limit. Stop playing donuts, stop waving your hands and looking at other drivers to pull faces and shake your heads. Concentrate on what you are doing. Keep your attention on the fucking road. Keep yourself, your passengers (your children) and others around you as safe as you can.

I had a stint as a professional chauffeur. My driving had to be immaculate, my passengers expected to feel safe.

And yet according to some on here it’s the ones using the proper lane procedure who are rude aggressive and need to chill.

Well, at least you know to expect the righteous firing squad.

It's dangerous for many reasons. One of them being that if people are driving correctly and need to change into the middle lane to give way to traffic joining the motorway, you're right there. Fucking it up for everyone.

If you don't know how to change lanes, don't drive on a motorway.

Driving at over 70 mph is dangerous as well, no one who drives at over 70 mph should be allowed on the motorway either...

Driving at over 70 mph is dangerous as well, no one who drives at over 70 mph should be allowed on the motorway either...

Unless they're French. Then it's magically safer. 🙄

It’s genuinely not more dangerous than being a middle lane driver, driving too slowly, hanging in people’s blind spots or being too nervous to maintain pace with the traffic. Motorways should be the safest roads, unfortunately the great British public are too dense to use them properly.

Honestly, the people saying they won’t move over for 30-60 seconds of being in a different lane… You do realise how long that is in driving terms right? Several cars can go around you in that time rather than you piss everyone off for sitting pointlessly in the middle lane.

3080ft in 30 seconds. Move over!

If you present it like that with those metrics. It’s kind of meaningless though in reality.
In and out every 30 seconds or so in a 2 or 3 hour drive, if everyone did that in would actually impede traffic flow and increase the collision risk. There’s a balance with common sense, if you are consistently at a speed passing every vehicle you can see in the lane to your left you are travelling with the traffic flow in the next lane. Presuming the conditions are reasonably congested but lanes are flowing, as is typical on the m25 or other major motorways in rush hour. Braking and accelerating constantly in and out the slower flow isn’t sensible. Anyone travelling faster than the flow in the middle lane can stay right and go with the flow in that lane, moving in if there are faster vehicles approaching behind or if they are not already looking to overtake vehicles in sight to the left. Obviously outside rush hour traffic or on minor motorways, particularly two lane stretches you drive differently. If you have 4-6 lanes you aren’t going to be going across all 4-6 lanes constantly, you should use the flow of traffic to guide you a bit and use common sense.

Because it reduces the capacity of the motorway, causing congestion and jams. Motorways have a design capacity, based on an expectation of speed, gap between cars and number of lanes. If people decide not to use the inner lane when it’s free, which is often way in excess of half the time, they’re effectively reducing the capacity of the road, which lowers average speed and ultimately causes jams. Surely that’s obvious? You can get 50% more traffic on a motorway where all three lanes are use compared to 2. Though, to be fair, the congestion and jams are behind the zombie-like middle lane drivers with the fixed stare hugging the steering wheel so perhaps it’s not obvious ;)

I do 70 in the left lane regularly on the M11, it’s easy. On the M25 though even the lorries are using the second lane to do 65 and the left lane can be 50. The speed difference means breaking everytime you switch left. I do tend to use lane 3 mainly at 70, as I’m passing the other lanes. I then move to lane 4 as needed, or left if it unusually empty. I don’t keep pulling in between the lorries and their stopping distances, or they flash at you to get back out.

I think what many people never see on these threads is motorways are so different. What happens near them can be different to other motorways. For example
The M25 is wide and busy. People stick to a lane and go with the flow. You get the congestion at junctions where lane switching happens, but otherwise it tends to move well like this.
The M11 for a while is two lanes and quite fast, you can easily stay left and move out as needed. Very few HGVs.
The M20 varies between wide and empty, easy fast at the left or a lorry wall to your left and no chance of going in those lanes. An actual queue sometimes with cars moving to the right.
Dual carriages the stay left rule if very important, or you block the road.
The M3 is wide, far less HGVs and certainly an issue with middle lane hogging.
You have to adapt to the road you are on, it’s a driving skill to go with traffic flow and conditions, not stick to rules

i’m in scotland where there aren’t too many 3 lane motorways. i drove up recently to and from south england so had to drive on loads.

I thought i understood them however, on driving 75-77 in the middle lane, i had driver overtake me in the empty 3rd lane. as he went by he did a hand gesture that indicated i should’ve moved over to the left lane out of his way. I didn’t move to the left as it wasn’t clear, i’d have to shove in between massive trucks and slow vans going like 60. There were also merge and slip lanes joining regularly. The third lane was clear so he could clearly use that and i was already speeding. He then continued back in middle lane up the arse of every car in front of him.
I just smiled and slowly shook my head at him. I did move back to the left once it’s clear though as i don’t like speeding generally. But if the left lane is crawling at 60-70 and 75-80 is too slow for the middle what do I do? 🤔

But it made me think about them and if i was really in the wrong? should i really get over and go extremely slow to allow another entitled drive to drive 80 mph+ when i was already speeding? i wasn’t supposed to be driving that speed. what’s the point of the third lane if the middle lane is for speeders/fast traffic overtaking? is it for people driving 85+? then what’s the point of speed limits? 😂😬

I really don’t get the aversion so many have to the third lane. They speed up and flash at you, when there’s an empty third lane. Or they undertake In dangerous ways to make a point. One stormed up behind me suddenly, a space was opening to my left and I indicated over to move. He still undertook me, I had to act evasively and stop my own lane switch, using the small gap to my left. All the while making a hand gesture. He then didn’t immediately have the space to get back out of that lane because there wasn’t space as I’d closed the gap between him and the lorry now in front of him. He ended up slamming his brakes on then going bat shit with the gestures. He then drove round and back in front of me and started break checking me . I just pulled in behind a lorry and waited for him to go away, but it was mental.

The drivers who are already going over the speed limit with the third lane free, flashing the driver in the middle lane, what **heads!

I don’t understand why so many seem to find lane discipline confusing. The Highway Code is crystal clear, keep in the left lane unless overtaking. If you are overtaking you should return to the left when it is safe to do so.

It's not that they are not aware of the Highway Code, they are just using common sense, why risk getting stuck behind a lorry in the slow lane and not being able to get back into the middle lane due to the traffic, when the the third lane is free, if other drivers want to overtake, your unlikely to get a ticket for being in the middle lane.