Is it you driving in the middle lane of the motorway or outside lane on a dual carriage way?

[muchalover]

Nobody is a perfect driver, including me.

But, why do people drive in the middle lane when they could easily pull in and stop the chaos they are causing behind them? Or pull in instead of driving in the outside lane of a dual carriageway when there is a large gap. On the M25 much of seems to be a fancy dual carriageway with 3 empty inside lanes. Why?

It's like advertising you're a crap driver and not willing to pay attention.

Or am I being unreasonable?

As I post, ten percent have voted that OP IBU. How can so many people be so inconsiderate? Even when the highway code is clear and there are huge numbers on this thread pointing out they are being cunts there are still some on here saying it's fine.

Where I live, the motorways and A roads are mostly max 2 lane. I use a major A road every day and it’s generally ok. You do get idiots overtaking lorries as about half a mile an hour quicker than the bloody lorry though. And other heinous crimes that piss me off when I should have left the house a couple of minutes earlier.

I was on the M25 a year or so ago (grew up using it a lot and it doesn’t phase me) and I actually thought the overtaking was much more courteous than where I am. Although not in rush hour thankfully. I noticed it and thought how good it was!

I'd check you understand the regulations being brought in before you start calling others twonks.

The limit won't apply to dual carriageways and motorways; only restricted roads.

Yes - if you are in the left hand lane and there is a car in the middle lane going slower than you, then that's undertaking.

It's specifically permitted in the highway code if you are just keeping up with the traffic in your lane. Of coure, if there is room, it's better to go all the way around the unmittigated wanker but sometimes middle and outer lane hogs make that impossible.

YANBU but I think motorways should be part of your driving test.

I was genuinely completely unaware that the other lanes are for over taking until my partner told me when we got our car.

There must be quite a lot of areas of life where you 'see no issues'. Does it ever occur to you that you are less perceptive than most people or so you just think everyone else must be wrong?

Do you ever get irritated by those who are selfish in other areas of life or do you just think it's everyone for themselves?

https://www.rac.co.uk/drive/advice/driving-advice/middle-lane-hogging/Yes, even the RAC advise that excessive weaving is dangerous and if all lanes are filled with traffic then it isn't 'middle lane hogging'. That's not the point of the OP.
Incidentally, rule 264 of the Highway Code states that you move back to the middle lane post overtaking only when safe to do so.

I often find that once I've completed my maneuver the pootler suddenly speeds up to close the gap so I can't get back in! Then there's a slip road, more cars join and it's a while before I can get back in. What I DON'T do however is attempt to overtake and then, failing, pootle along at the same speed as the left lane... what for?? If you were going the same speed anyway why bother overtaking?

I also see a lot of 'middle lane hoggers' and this isn't mainly drivers, it's massive slow moving vehicles like HGVs. A pp on a similar thread called it the 'elephant parade', where one truck's going 2 mph faster than the other. Sometimes I have a mind to get their plate numbers of my dashcam and report them, but we're short of HGV drivers as it is.

I can sort of get people who tend to stay a while in lane 2 when there is traffic in lane 1 that they are overtaking and they are advancing towards it but not quite there. You could pull into lane 1 only to have to pull out again to lane 2. That depends on the traffic volume, speed, distance from you and the gaps available if you were to go back into lane 1.

But people know what a middle lane hogger is. When traffic in lane 1 is either non existent or is even going faster than you and cars are having to go from lane 1 to lane 3 to get past you just stuck in lane 2

I'm often in the outside lane on the M25 but I'm overtaking. I'd normally be in Lane 2 of 4 avoiding the lorries during in the day. I'm always going faster than the traffic on my left

I do find the normal rules go out the window on the 25th. People doing 80 overtaking on the left. Doing 60 in the outside lane. I saw someone drive 1 metre from the car doing 60 in the outside lane, then then over took on the inside, pulled back in front of them and brakechecked them. We was in the inside lane but I screamed. So bloody stupid. He almost did an emergency brake at 80 mph in the outside lane. It was a busy Saturday lunch time.

I wished I had a dash cam.

Oh try getting north of the border, M8 etc are horrendous for this. Far prefer driving abroad, France, Spain even Italy are far better at driving motorways.

I was stuck behind some dick today on a dual carriageway going 47mph in the outside lane. He was undertaken by a Waitrose lorry driving at around 50mph. I ended up beeping him to get him to move the fuck over. For information, both lanes ahead of us were clear for at least a mile ahead. Thankfully, he FINALLY moved over, and I quickly got up to speed.

I agree.

This.

Yup

With all due respect, just not noticing just isn’t good enough.

You should drive on the inside lane. Move over when someone is joining from a slip road. Then move back.

You can overtake, but do so expediently then move back to the inside lane. Anything less observant than this could cause an accident, because you’re not following the rules that other better drivers understand.

Frustration causes accidents. Don’t be a source of frustration.

I'll be honest...if traffic is fairly sparse, I'll sit in the middle lane rather than hit all the bumps, potholes and debris in the left lane just to save wear and tear on tyres and suspension (my car's an old MG...needs all the help it can get).

Always gravitate to the left lane on a dual carriageway, though, unless the road's empty in which case I'll use the right lane for the same reason.

It's crazy motorway driving isn't taught more in driving lessons. When I learnt to drive you weren't allowed to but obviously it is now. DS didn't do much but on his last lesson he didn't really need to do any more test prep so spent the 2 hrs on the motorway. He is really good even a week or so after passing his test as he drives exactly as he should. Even before his last lesson the instructor told him what he should be doing on a motorway but its meaningless unless they practice it.

I had no idea when driving on the motorway, passed my test then could just drive on the motorway. I was probably a couple of years into driving when someone explained about the lanes properly.

I recently drove from the South to the West Country. I really noticed how awful the driving was on the A roads, I know not quite the same as the motorway but loads of caravans going almost fast enough in the outside lane and stopping people over taking. Just felt such an uncomfortable drive as I witnessed about 5 near misses because of the dreadful usage of the lanes.

@Shade17
Poor phrasing. I meant it turned it into 2 lanes rather than the 4 it actually had

OK, not relevant to this thread, but the last line is trotted out so many times, even on the official driving test and I find it stupid, especially now that we have to treat cycles like cars.

Not motorway specific. But how is it that a car, pootling along at 20 mph on a 50mph road, is considered a 'dangerous driver' due to blocking motorists and causing frustration (leading to accidents as per the logic). While a cyclist, doing exactly the same thing, is fine?

The car 'can' go faster than the cyclist but in terms of frustration it makes no difference. They are both slow-moving objects. You need to give both the same amount of consideration overtaking so you're still going to be frustrated. While 'causing frustration' is a legitimate stick to beat drivers over the head with. 'Victim of frustration' is never an excuse for causing an accident.

Follow the law, fine, but causing frustration is rather vague, also what's the line between justified frustration and pure agression/impatience?

FWIW am a patient driver here, always follow rules, give cyclists as much space as a car no matter what I think personally I follow the guidance but the logic of frustration I find inconsistent.

Not motorway specific. But how is it that a car, pootling along at 20 mph on a 50mph road, is considered a 'dangerous driver' due to blocking motorists and causing frustration (leading to accidents as per the logic). While a cyclist, doing exactly the same thing, is fine

Because you know the car could be going faster? Whereas the bike can't?

I don't get annoyed by a tractor - that's their speed. It's a bit annoying if they don't pull over when a long queue develops.

Slow drivers in everyday road cars doing 20 mph when they can do faster. That's annoying.

You should all try driving in Wales from next week. Twenty mile speed limit all over the place.

Aye this is the problem !

20mph on restricted roads only...

What I'm trying to get across is that 'frustration' is a stupid reason to explain why a certain law exists. Of course, logically a car 'can' go faster, and a cyclist 'can't', and you logically distinguish between the two. But most people don't, they just want to get to their destination and a tortoise in the way is annoying. You hinted at the same thing yourself, when you stated it's a bit annoying that tractors don't pull over when a long queue develops.

The Highway Code does state that slow-moving vehicles should pull over to allow people to pass, and there's a lot of debate. Conflicting information in articles, but a lot of online cyclist forums etc state that it's not necessary and cyclists should just allow tailbacks to form and have no obligation to smooth the flow of traffic. Nobody is taking frustration into account here.

If 'frustration' is a bad thing and it can cause accidents then courteous behaviour such as pulling over should be made clearer. Otherwise, talk about the law, but not 'frustration'. You either think it's something to be avoided (within reason of course, aggressive twats getting frustrated is their own issue), or not. Not just when it suits certain groups of road users.

It's also the law that you can't go over 70mph but everyone ignores that too!