Surgery cancelled again. WIBU to turn up to the hospital regardless?

[Wndof]

I've been waiting over a year for life saving surgery. I was finally given a date for 31st August then they changed the date twice, switching my appointment with somebody else and then telling me they'd made a mistake with dates. Finally, 14th September (so tomorrow) was confirmed and I've undergone all of the pre operative tests and assessments, made arrangements for the children, XP secured the time off work.. only for them to text me just now and say the surgery has been cancelled due to a bed issue.

I called the admissions coordinator who has been absolutely terrible throughout and told him that I plan on turning up tomorrow morning and won't be leaving.

I read on here thats what somebody's father did in the same situation and he got his operation.

WIBU to give it a go?

Sorry if I seem dramatic, I just cannot endure this utter shit any longer 😭

Guess what, the phrase “usually with an intensive care doctor available 24 hours a day” doesn’t fill me with confidence” . Probably the word usually, and the word doctor without a comforting plural s .

I mean.. you have nothing to lose if you turn up so why not

@Saltyswee they can't magic up a bed they don't have.

Don't forget that it's for the OP's own safety, that she needs an ICU bed. It would be reckless and irresponsible to go ahead with surgery unless there is a bed. No surgeon is going to risk his registration by going ahead knowing there is no bed. Staff on the ward/ admissions unit won't be able to do anything about it.

@Toddlerteaplease Absolutely, I agree. I wasn’t seriously suggesting it. It’s just an immense amount of pressure to be under.

I really feel for you. Exactly the same thing happened to me this summer. My operation date was changed 3 times I think and once cancelled at the 11th hour. It was because of the junior doctor’s strikes. I felt so hopeless, terrified of not doing anything and risking never getting the treatment I needed but also not wishing to piss off the people who would inevitably be performing the surgery … Emailing PALS, CCing the surgical team, surgical bookings team, the hospital director, anyone I could think of basically every few days to very politely remind them how much I was struggling seemed to do the trick and I’m recovering now.

The squeaky wheel gets the oil. It’s so miserable to have to beg for surgery though. Wishing you the best of luck my dear. X

Clutching at straws but maybe you could pretend that you didn't receive the text message? So you'd go in as if you expected to have the surgery and see what happens? Worth a try, IMO.

What a terrible situation. I hope you get that surgery, OP. Thinking of you.🤞

If you keep voting Tory because you think you won't have to pay so many taxes they're better for the economy then you are largely responsible for this. It is not the Government that pays for public services, it is us. If we don't want to pay for them then this is the result.

Whatever fancy management consultants say about efficiencies and better targeted resources, what it really means when they cut costs is cutting services. Eventually there aren't any additional admin assistants left to cut. Also, if they don't have admin assistants, then it means other people, including clinical staff, have less time to do their jobs.

I can understand up to a point why you might want to reset what you perceive to be excessive taxes and spending at times. But eventually if you keep voting for them, you'll end up with what we have now.

And if you say that private companies manage it, well it would seem not. My husband works for a massive company that makes a fortune. All they are focused on is cutting costs. Everyone is incredibly stressed and eventually the company will suffer. Or if they move work overseas then you won't eventually have a job.

What disgusts me is if Rishi Sunak or Boris Johnson needed a bed (which they might because seemingly the swanky private hospitals don't have ICU beds) they would 100% get priority. If they never have to see the consequences of their decision-making then nothing will change. Unless we decide to change it our end.

But don't fool yourselves: this won't be turned around overnight. Decades of underfunding, including not training enough doctors and nurses, will take at least a decade to change. If we voted out the Tories now, I would probably be on my way out by the time things started to improve.

@Wndof it will be a balancing of urgency, risks, and consequences. So an operation that would prevent imminent wheelchair dependency would trump an operation which 'only' relieves pain, for example.

Nobody likes those decisions and hospitals are very good at juggling patients. Patients who can be stepped down are, even if it means extensive ITU outreach intervention on the wards. Patients who can be discharged from hospital are. However, if there are no ward beds, patients can't move. If there are critically ill patients already in the hospital who need an HDU/ITU bed, they can't prioritise an elective patient.

@Wndof whilst it seems unlikely, beds do sometimes become available. It's not beyond the realms of possibility

Even in intensive care, if a patient needs a specialist bed and there isn't one, they just have to wait. I once had a patient who needed a specialist bed and we waited 17 days until one became free. 17 days of being ventilated and sedated because without urgent cardiac surgery the patient couldn't breathe on their own. If there are no beds there are no beds.

Hi op, I have no words of wisdom, just a hand hold. My mum (64) had a brain tumour removed 22 days ago from Southampton general in the neurological ward. I honestly can't imagine how you feel right now considering you'd gone through the pre op. My mum was really excited about it and was all geared up and just ready. I'm so sorry this has happened to you. Unfortunately they don't keep you in long,they thought my mum would come home the following day after her surgery but she she couldn't walk so couldn't, there were 4 beds in her little bit and every day when we visited there was someone less because they get you out as soon as they can now for the bed.
I hope you get the answers you need soon 💕

I once had a patient who needed a specialist bed and we waited 17 days until one became free. 17 days of being ventilated and sedated because without urgent cardiac surgery the patient couldn't breathe on their own. If there are no beds there are no beds.

So basically it's all down to chance whether somebody gets their surgery? I'm not feeling very optimistic then, there must be so many people in the same position as me. I'd better prepare myself for constant cancellations then.

Compassion.

It's not down to chance but it's unethical to deliberately place someone in danger. At the moment you are safer as you are than if you have surgery because there are no appropriate post op beds for you. If you suddenly had signs or symptoms that your aneurysm was bleeding, then they would have to diagnose that and treat as an emergency. It's very similar to when women are induced or have C-sections at hospital. If there is no capacity, they are delayed until there is. If they suddenly need a category 1 section, they would do it but likely transfer them by ambulance to another hospital afterwards.

No I don’t think it’s just down to chance, what happens is that in the days before surgery someone (I think it was the lead nurse in our case) keeps in touch with the ICU and looks at what beds are available. In our case we were told that the day before the surgery for my DC there were 4 beds, so the nurse said it was looking hopeful, but equally he did warn us that things could change overnight and that cancellation was still possible. In actual fact 3 days after my daughter was stepped down to a normal ward there was a major incident in our area and the ICU was full- if that had happened overnight my DC’s surgery would have been cancelled.

Again I totally get that it’s shit (that was one of the most stressful periods of my life) but try not to take it personally, 90% of the people will be trying to get your surgery done, it’s really just trying to work out the greatest need at any one point and allocating resources to that. You should keep complaining and raising your case of course though.

Theres a prioritisation booking importance code attached to all surgeries and a combination of sensible discussions with surgrons/anaesthetists/icu nurses/mdt re cancer vs xyz vs cancelled 4x before

...less so in your case as you'll only be "competing" with other neuro icu patients as neuro has their own icu independent of "normal" icu patients so in a sense are better off. So will just be the neuro icu team plus neurosurgeons discussing priority of all cases booked. The prob is most neurosurgical go to at least hdu post op

How does that help there being no icu bed being free?

To all those people saying other people are sicker and need the ICU bed more urgently - yes they are sicker and do need the bed, but we need to ask the question why have they reached that state?
If everything is left until it's a life threatening emergency then @Wndof fears that they will be that very sick person in the near future - a burst aneurysm, possibly death or disability.
Surely it's infinitely better (and cheaper)to treat people before they reach the end state!

I'd turn up on the day of surgery, and then just would come every day after. Beds become available on a short notice, capacity planning at hospitals in the UK is not great. Today they have no beds, tomorrow they will have three and will start calling around asking if you can make it to the hospital in an hour.

I don't know honestly why the British put up with their state medical system.

No it's not chance, and it's not that common to be cancelled.

They only book 1-3 cases depending on if there is expected discharges and step downs. But equally its medicine we can't guarentee patients follow the exact perfect recovery plan as expected

PALS take calls from 9am so I'm just waiting to call.

What exactly do PALS do? Will they liase with the bed managers etc?

We wouldn't transfer out a post op patient (unless transferring for baby), just means a waiting induction has to wait longer

We aren't just sat twiddling our thumbs waiting for people to reach your "end state"! The nhs is just crumbling from a lack of staff. There isn't very much of neuro that isn't near life threatening unfortunately