Cyclist at Pedestrian Crossing

[grumpypedestrian]

First off I’m all for people cycling, it’s a great mode of transport.

Ive had yet another close encounter and narrowly avoided being hit by a cyclist. Is there an unknown rule that cyclists can go full speed through pedestrian crossings?

Ive experienced nearly being hit by cyclists going through red lights too.

Again.....how is this relevant on a thread about a CYCLIST failing to stop at a zebra crossing? No one can deny that a car is more likely to kill (although I've never encountered a car nearly hitting me on a crossing but I have with a cyclist) but I'm struggling to see how this justifies dangerous cyclists. 🤷

It doesn’t. Cars are more dangerous, that’s true. But the fact is that a person on a bike going full speed through a zebra crossing is also dangerous to a pedestrian.

Im not saying ALL cyclists do this, but it’s enough now for it to be noticeable. I was joking about it being an unknown rule, but it’s happened so many times I do stop and remind myself I wasn’t in the wrong at a zebra crossing.

Such a stupid comment. Should we not complain about burglary because murders are worse?

@grumpypedestrian

I totally agree. An adult, cycling at speed through red lights or across zebra crossings when pedestrians are using them, is a danger......simple as that! The repeated comments about how unlikely it would be for a cyclist to injure you in such circumstances are ridiculous. Of course you will be injured if a bike ploughs into you at speed with the full weight of an adult thrown in for good measure. But it seems that if that were to happen, the pedestrian should just be thankful it wasn't a car!!! Utter nonsense! Having read some of the comments defending bad cyclists on this and other cycling threads, it is little wonder that cyclists are perceived negatively if this group are in any way representative of the general attitudes of cyclists.

These things are all related, though. I taught my children to always cross at the green man. Always. However, where I am multiple cars are often still turning right when the green man goes on (long after the traffic lights went red). I am more likely to cross with the red man now, which I'm aware is more likely to cause an accident.

I'm not saying cyclists should do this (obviously they shouldn't) but one person's actions can have a knock on affect on others. Again there is a joint pedestrian/cycle zebra crossing near me that cars consistently fail to stop at.

If everyone followed the rules we'd all be safer.

One of the Mumsnet Commandments is Though Shalt Not Criticise Cyclists Even When They Are Being Twats.

Every single thread about illegal and dangerous cyclists goes the same way:

Cyclists are vulnerable to harm from cars so it's totally fine for them to inflict harm on people more vulnerable from them.

Cyclists rarely actually kill people, and anything less than actual outright murder doesn't count.

Victim blaming people who have been hit and injured by dangerous illegal cyclists.

Minimising and belittling pedestrians (especially disabled and elderly people) who have been injured or just plain terrorised.

I live in London, I see insanely dangerous cycling every single day. I used to live on a road where I literally could not use my nearest pedestrian crossing at all because of the sheer number of cyclists who would break through a blind crossing at speed when the little green man was lit up, when there was no way for them to see if there were pedestrians on it or not.

I've personally witnessed a cyclist taking a blind corner at speed knowing the lights were red, not realising till he got round the corner that there was a party of very tiny school kids on the crossing, and having to yank his bike down to avoid hitting a load of tiny children.

I've personally witnessed cyclist smash into and kill a guide dog then just cycle off, because he ran a red light at a blind crossing.

I've personally been knocked to the ground, shouted at, terrorised, by illegal cycling.

I know elderly and disabled people who are scared to go outside because illegal and aggressive cycling is such a big problem in London.

Illegal and dangerous cycling is a menace and there's no accountability. Those people should be in jail.

If someone started a thread because they'd witnessed a horse riding acting in a dangerous manner, other horse riders would be lining up to condemn that rider.

Most normal people condemn illegal activity that actively harms the most vulnerable in society, what the actual fuck is wrong with cyclists that they can't just say "illegal dangerous cycling is wrong and I don't condone it."

Cyclists ITT have criticized it though.

The reason some people get so defensive about it is because the attacks are frequent and the suggested remedies are not really proportionate to the problem.

But how many deaths or knocking people down should it take though? Living in London I see cyclists often jumping lights and shouting at pedestrians. Just because these people have got lucky and haven't badly injured or killed anyone yet doesn't mean we should be waiting for it to happen 200 times before it's a problem.

A man with a moustache stepped on my foot the other day, and another one with a moustache made me spill my coffee - what will it take to bring these moustachioed men under control?

Cyclists shouldn't dash across pedestrian crossings. Everyone knows that. The ones who do are dicks.

They're also very likely to also be injured if they crash into a pedestrian, so they're dimwitted dicks.

A couple of idiots doesn't mean all cyclists are wild and out of control

This is a bit dramatic. Car drivers don't tend to go to jail when they drink drive without insurance and crash into someone etc - but you think cyclists should for jumping lights?

@OneTC

The "attacks are frequent" suggests in itself that people's encounters and experiences with dangerous/poor cyclist behaviour is far more common than some cyclists would like or lead us to believe. I drive, walk and cycle and would never see the need to defend, (often to ridiculous lengths as happens on these threads) any dangerous or disgusting behaviour of any one using these modes of transport. I do wonder if the OTT defence from some is maybe due to the fact that they are guilty of such behaviour themselves.

Typical Mumsnet, disabled people share how utterly terrorising illegal cycling is and that some disabled people literally feel that they can't go outside, and we're belittled, have our lived experience negated, and told it's no big deal.

I've been hit by or otherwise caused to fall because of bikes at least 20 times in my life, but apparently nothing short of actual death counts.

And cyclists are very keen on shouting about statistics but the fact is there aren't any valid statistics since no one keeps track, since there is no way to keep track. I've certainly never reported anything, how could I report it since there's no way to ever track down a cyclist? And clearly no one cares unless you actually die.

Every single person I know in London (even people who cycle themselves) has had hair raising experiences and near-misses with illegal cyclists. It isn't a once in a while thing, it's all day every day.

A couple of idiots doesn't mean all cyclists are wild and out of control

Very few people are paedophiles but we still have DBS checks for everyone if they want to work with kids.
No one is saying ALL cyclists are out of control. But it happens enough that something should ideally be done to try and prevent it. The fact there are nice law abiding cyclists doesn't make up for the shit ones who shout at elderly pedestrians or nearly run down a group of kids.

How many cyclists would even notice if they misjudged a crossing at a red light and nearly winged an elderly lady? Or caused someone who didn't look disabled to have to jump out of the way? The elderly lady might become agoraphobic from fear of being hit again. The person who didn't look disabled might have a balance disorder that meant they couldn't save themselves from falling (but the cyclist didn't notice, racing off) and falling caused an injury that didn't kill them but did cause major disruption to their live?

A bad cyclist would be a bad driver and would be a bad pedestrian too.

You can't compare vehicles with pedestrians because to operate either a car or a bike, you need to be at least reasonably able-bodied.

There are plenty of disabled people (eg people who are completely blind) who cannot operate any form of vehicle at all, who are solely reliant on either walking or public transport/lifts, and who are very vulnerable.

Threads like this always ignore the existence of disabled people or act like they're a nuisance, but the fact is people who aren't medically able to either drive or cycle (but still need to be able to get around!!) aren't necessarily going to me medically capable of the level of awareness you need to be in charge of a vehicle.

So there's an inherent disparity there.

If someone is completely blind, they obviously have no ability to look at a crossing to see if there's a bike about to break the red light. They are solely reliant on the crossing telling them that the green man is lit up, and hoping that no-one actively breaks the law and decides to smash into them (and if someone does decide to break the law, the blind person will be blamed for being blind).

Does crossing when the green man is lit up, without looking to see if anything is coming, make you a "bad" pedestrian"?

And it's not just blind people, plenty of people have medical conditions that cause confusion, or lack of spatial awareness, of reduced reaction time.

Those people would never be able to drive a car or a bike so why are they responsible for keeping themselves safe from able-bodied people who clearly are perfectly physically capable of not hitting someone, but choose to endanger others through sheer selfishness?

The assumption seems to be that all pedestrians are also car drivers, so fuck 'em. People forget that "sole pedestrians" who don't operate any form of transport do actually exist. The last time there was a thread like this, there were pro-cycling posters who just couldn't wrap their brains around the fact I've never driven a car in my life and hadn't been inside a car in years. (Though obviously pedestrians who do own and drive cars also deserve to not be endangered just as much!)

It feels like there's an attitude of "anyone who isn't a cyclist is a car driver and therefore bad and the enemy".

@TheGhostofLoganRoy very eloquently put.

My dogs and I have had to dodge cyclists on pavements, but we are fit and able bodied; it’s given me pause for thought to imagine what that would be like if I were blind or otherwise disabled.

Cyclists (and worse are the e-scooter riders!) are a menace at times.

If you're hit by a cyclist, you know about it. A friend of mine was badly injured by a cyclist on her way home from school when we were in Year 7. Rider didn't even stop to see she was okay.
My mum and I happened to drive past a minute or two later, as she was limping her way home, blood pouring down her legs, and drove her home.

@TheGhostofLoganRoy

How very true. A close relative suffered a stroke recently and this has resulted in him being unable to process things correctly on his right side. He is nervous about crossing roads as he must step off a kerb where traffic would be immediately coming from his right side. He would be unable to be reactive enough to avoid a cyclist failing to stop. It just shouldn't happen and there is absolutely nothing that can excuse or justify any cyclist failing to follow the rules of the road that they shout long and loud about having every right to use.

@TheGhostofLoganRoy

How very true. A close relative suffered a stroke recently and this has resulted in him being unable to process things correctly on his right side. He is nervous about crossing roads as he must step off a kerb where traffic would be immediately coming from his right side. He would be unable to be reactive enough to avoid a cyclist failing to stop. It just shouldn't happen and there is absolutely nothing that can excuse or justify any cyclist failing to follow the rules of the road that they shout long and loud about having every right to use.

Oops sorry about double post. Phone is being slow! 🙄

Yeah there might be a bit of that but there's also the sense of being constantly held to account for others actions.

If people equally called out bad driving every time, and suggested this was an inherent part of being a driver I reckon you'd ultimately find it pretty grating as well

There's a whole system to hold car drivers accountable, that's why cars have registration plates. There's no accountability for cyclists. If a bike hits you there's nothing you can do.

It's not socially acceptable for cars to run red lights at busy pedestrian crossings, no car driver would just casually admit to mowing down pedestrians, yet cyclists openly brag that they ignore red lights.

I've never seen drivers gang up en masse to attack and belittle victims of car crashes, demonise them as being "anti-car", or tell them they didn't die so what's the big deal.

Everyone knows that cars are dangerous, yet there seems to be a denial about how dangerous bikes are.

The only reason people are painting all cyclists as bad is because so many cyclists seem to be gung-ho for defending bad cyclists, which doesn't make sense. The only reason these threads exists is because of cyclists arguing on and on. If all the cyclists on MN restrained themselves to posting "Yep illegal dangerous cycling is bad and makes us all look bad" then every cycling thread would be two pages long max.

Otterhaven I'm so sorry about your relative, it's really tough.

There's a whole thread on the go at the moment with drivers moaning about other drivers not following the rules regarding middle lane driving and undertaking. So yes drivers do frequently call out other drivers for bad behaviour. I've seen car drivers in real life shouting at other car drivers being idiots etc.

I disagree. I don't think every cyclist is being held to account for the actions of a particular cyclist that someone has posted about. It is just how some cyclists like to perceive it as it suits their agenda to claim they are being got at...again! I also don't think the cycling posts are constant. If cyclists are fed up of reading them ..... then don't..... simple! If by posting about a bad experience with a cyclist makes just one cyclist think twice about their cycling habits, then that's surely a good thing. It is the defence of illegal cycling that I cannot understand.
I drive frequently and can honestly say that it would never bother me if people complained about drivers as I am not so blinkered that I cannot appreciate that many bad drivers do exist. I would never defend them as I think their actions are inexcusable. I would not take it personally if someone had a pop at drivers as I know I drive carefully and abide by the law.

Cyclists can be travelling at over 20 mph and although a collision may not kill a pedestrian it could cause severe injury. It is disappointing to see that other cyclists don't call out this behaviour.

I suppose the difference is that people do have negative attitudes towards cyclists based on the actions of a few irresponsible ones, and negative attitudes can feed into how drivers perceive cyclists and behave towards them on the roads.

I don't mind people complaining about drivers either (I am one). I don't mind picking out examples of bad cycling practice (I'm a cyclist too) but when it comes to sweeping statements about cyclists, news reports about cyclists being angry loons etc, I worry how that might colour the perception drivers have to cyclists.

As a cyclist I've had pedestrians step out in front of me abruptly, nowhere near a crossing. I've had car drivers throw drinks out of their windows at me. I've had car drivers turn left in front of me without indicating, checking mirrors or blind spot. I've had drivers fail to give way when there wasnt enough room for us both and I had right of way, then yell and swear at me. I've been yelled at out of windows many times, often with sexual comments.

There are just a lot of idiots out there.

@TheGhostofLoganRoy

Thank you for your kind words x