Why is it that if any physical part of my body is sick, broken or in need of treatment....

[BernadetteRostankowskiWolowitz]

I can get it checked, repaired (if possible) or treated, at no cost to me, via the NHS - apart from if its my teeth?

So a broken wrist, a lump in a breast, COPD, sudden onset blindness, nerve pains, a stubborn rash, etc - all justifiable reasons to attend a suitable outlet (GP, A&E, specialist care etc) - ok, there's a waitlist usually, but all ranges of medical needs across the whole human body.

But if the issue is with my teeth, it's not serviced in the same manner. Why?

Literally all other parts of me would be covered by the NHS.

I don't get why dentistry (basic one not clsmetic) is not part of basic healthcare either

It would be at cost to me though. I don't want to be taxed more to pay for stuff for other people.

I have dental insurance

That’s the spirit @M4J4 👍

Did you know that dental health has a direct impact on heart health? Pretty sure basic dental care would save money spent on cardiac conditions.

But why? Why isn't dentistry included?

Why is that the cut off when the remaining 99.9% of the body is covered via your taxes?

Because that is how it was set up back in the 1940s, and no government since then has altered it.

NHS treatment is way cheaper than private, and there are a number of payment exemptions (children, qualifying benefits, maternity)

Opticians are on similar model.

I think we've lost sight of the costs of healthcare - these charges are far lower than the actual prices

I was thinking about optitians, but whilst sight quality is covered by them at cost separately, if my eye was actually damaged (eg something cut it or there was a growth on it), that would be Hospital/NHS.

Yet the same is not true of teeth.

Well, you do pay for treatment as in you pay for prescriptions (unless you’re not in England?). And we all pay for the NHS via taxes. But yes, free at point of use, I take your point.
Dentistry has not been free at point of use for all aspects of dentistry since 1951 (charges for dentures were introduced during that year) - only three in to the NHS existence, largely because the NHS had already started to run out of money. There weee just too many people using the service, and their teeth were just too bad, for the NHS to continue to cover every aspect of the cost of dentistry. Presumably there hasn’t been a point since then when things have improved enough to warrant going in reverse and covering all aspects of dentistry again.

Yep, honestly anything from a UTI to the most horrific disease, almost for free - no problem!

Teeth, ooh no, not teeth. Doesn't make any sense!

Well, here is an interesting page on the history of dentistry and the NHS

https://bda.org/museum/exhibitions-and-events/nhs70-celebrating-70-years-of-nhs-dentistry

'Dentists at the time had concerns about how the new NHS system for dental practitioners would work, and more importantly, how the funding could be sustainable.

An item of service payment system for general dental practitioners was proposed, but the complexities of how this could work and the need for prior approvals and a likely growing mountain of bureaucracy, were felt to have not been thought through.'

'Dentists' fears about the sustainability of the service were justified. Within two years of launching the NHS, the government cut the rates of item of service payments three times, and did so without consulting dentists.'

So basically dentists were already up and running, 1/4 of them converted to NHS when it was founded, but it was all about money and the NHS didn't want to pay as much as they could make in private practice.

The same is true for opticians now - a local independent one has gone entirely private as they said NHS fee barely covered their costs, and often the NHS would refuse to issue payment for one reason or another, making them run at a loss.

For example - that other thread mentions an assessment appointment with x-ray at £50 and tooth extraction costing £300 privately. The NHS charge for the same is £25.80 (for just the check up x-ray) or £70.70 (for an extraction)

Which? on price comparisons
Private And NHS Dental Charges 2023 - Which?

The range of private prices won't be profiteering - it'll reflect the differing costs of premises and local pay rates

Teeth and Eyes. I was having this exact same conversation with my DH the other day. It’s so weird, and shortsighted (!) of the NHS to have these two body parts sit outside of the regular service. No joined up thinking at all. I am lucky to have an NHS dentist surgery that is very very good. Recently when I had an issue that could have been dental, could have been ENT related, it was easier for me to see my dentist for emergency investigation that it was to see my GP. So I ended up going private for the GP part.

It is frustrating. Ironically because of me being unable to afford to visit the dentist regularly for several years I ended up being referred to a NHS hospital dentistry service where my expensive treatment over 2 years cost me nothing.

That’s not quite true though. I see a private dentist and pay for all checkups and treatment, however I had a bigger issue with my wisdom teeth and was referred to my local NHS hospital for all four to be extracted under general anaesthetic by an NHS dentist with both initial consultation and follow up with the same dentist/department,plus NHS dispensed medication such as pain relief and ABs etc.

But I do agree with you in principle, it’s a strange set up and doesn’t fully make sense to me either! X

It's also a strange situation with opticians, as they are often the best place people to look at things that happen with your eyes - and yet there is usually no way to just get an appointment for that, without a sight test; (a few places have a minor eye condition services, but often you just want to check something with your own optometrist). So you'd end up paying for a sight test you don't need, or they'd end up seeing you for free, or - as often ends up happening with me - I just don't go in, but then worry that it is more serious, as I've had some serious problems in the past. Or I feel guilty about going in when they just see me for free.

My opticians do still see me as an NHS patient (I am quite short sighted so that means the test is covered) at least.

I haven't had my teeth done for ages, mostly beacuse I spend such a fortune on my eyes!! It is weird as eyes are also extremely medical, much of the time.

Aren't you a peach.

In Scotland dentistry does come under the NHS so most treatment is either free or very low cost, as it should be.

A long time ago, I transitioned from NHS to private dentistry because I'd been referred to a dental hospital for a particular problem. 3 years later, I discovered that, despite assurances, I wasn't on the referral list.

My NHS dentist then said that I had no chance of being referred in a timely fashion. By this time, the tooth infection had infected and eroded my jaw bone. She advised me to go privately to remediate it through a series of bone grafts.

However, almost 20 years later, I may need a section of my jaw removed as a legacy of the original infection that went out of control. This will probably have to be funded privately by me for no very good reason.

It makes no sense at all, does it? It's just accepted that you have to pay for teeth and eyes, because you do; but nobody really questions the (lack of) logic.

Of course, it's good that there are set NHS prices, as long as you can actually find an NHS place, but the whole idea of 'these are the NHS charges' is just alien to the whole concept of the NHS.

Prescriptions are another one. I believe only 10% of people in England pay for them, and then everybody else in the UK gets them free. It probably costs more to administer them than it would just to make them free for everybody.

I think they've clamped down on it now, but there was a time when some people who qualified for free prescriptions would somehow convince their GP to prescribe things like basic paracetamol and even standard shampoo, so that they wouldn't have to pay to buy them from a shop, even though they aren't expensive in the first place. Meanwhile, people needing actual prescription-only medicines who didn't get free prescriptions were going without what they needed, because they couldn't afford the cost of a prescription for each item.

But the OP is paying her taxes for it too otherwise it would be free.

Scotland can be more expensive.

Basic check up is free, but thereafter it's 80% of treatment cost, to a ceiling of £384. Same in Northern Ireland (I think)

England it's 3 banded charges, depending on what's done: £25.80, £70.70 and £306.80

Wales, again 3 bands - £14.70, £47.00 and £203.00

You wouldn’t need dental insurance if we all paid a tiny amount more in tax to fund free dentistry for everyone. That’s how universal healthcare works. Everyone pays in and everyone benefits from it. It’s not a matter of you paying other people’s dental care, because they would also be paying for yours.

You’d pay less in additional tax than you pay for your dental plan.

And yes, OP, it makes no sense at all. I can see why cosmetic dentistry like braces, white fillings, dental implants etc wouldnt be covered on the NHS but tooth decay or a dental abscess (for example) can be not only extremely painful but also really dangerous if not treated.

You can die of heart disease caused by bad teeth/gums.

I would have thought that heart disease would be a lot more expensive to treat than if they gave the person free dental care.

I have no idea why teeth wouldn’t be included in the same way as every other part of your body is.

You are paying for other people though - that's what insurance is - shared risk

But by paying private insurance rather than public health insurance aka NHS you are also paying for the profits of that private company and the advertising and the shareholder profits ....

It’s almost impossible to get an NHS dentist because there is way less money in it than private dentistry.

Perhaps if dentistry was on the NHS like other body parts they would get paid fairly and not turn to being private.