AIBU to ask why it’s unacceptable to eat Veal, but Lamb is fine?

[Wills]

I’ve just returned from a holiday in France where Veal is as common as Lamb yet back here Veal is a big no no but lamb is acceptable? I’m not keen on Beef or Veal, just interested in what the difference is in terms of eating baby animals?

Pretty much every single dairy farmer's contract with their dairy these days will stipulate that male calves can't be shot at birth.

That was only happening anyway during a period of time where the male calves had absolutely no financial value.

These days people do use male dairy calves in the beef industry, or more commonly a beef breed bull is used so the calves have more value in the beef industry, or sexed semen is used so that a high proportion of female dairy calves are produced.

I'm out; but I will just add that dogs are omnivores, and no animal dies a 'humane' death in a slaughter house.

Yes, the male calves are often shot at birth. They’re ‘useless’ to the dairy industry. Some veal information Here

Also, on a related note, male chicks in the egg industry are killed too. Usually they’re gassed but sometimes they’re macerated.

Very few animals die a ‘humane death’ in nature, either!

That’s not to say that we shouldn’t strive for the most humane deaths as it’s possible to give stock animals. I would very much like to see cameras in every abattoir, for animals to be slaughtered at farms instead of shipped to slaughterhouses, the highest possible welfare standards in abattoirs, and an end to all live exports for slaughter.

Thanks @ComtesseDeSpair
But what I mean is without even raising them any further (which I understand might not make sense to the farmers).

I mean as they are, after they're born - surely that would make most sense??

@BreatheAndFocus do you know - why is that better financially than slaughtering them then and selling them for veal?
It sounds like such a waste otherwise.

Well the lambs we eat aren't actually newborn lambs, they're usually 10-11 months old, are born in decent conditions, kept with their mother's and released into the field until they're ready for market. They really do have decent lives.
Calves used for veal (on the continent) are born, taken away from their mother's within hours with the mother crying for her baby, the calves are kept in restrictive crates so they are unable to move, turn around or even lick themselves. They are fed artifical milk to fatten them up until they get a bit porky and then slaughtered at a few days old.
Rose veal (the type you get in the UK from British farms) are treated less appallingly, kept in barns with other calves, but still torn from their mums.

My dad was a dairy farmer and no calves were shot. We raised any spare male calves for beef and they went to market after about 18 months. This was possible because of their greater muscle. Now dairy breeds like Holstein have much less muscle on them. Cows are bred to produce ridiculous amounts of milk and their build is tall rangy and skinny looking. All this due to the demand for very cheap milk in the supermarket.

Other males were sold as bulls and there wasn't the same reliance on stored semen

Ahh - I was wondering why that didn't happen - glad to see that they do that .

I don't eat meat but think I need to be more mindful regarding purchasing/ consuming dairy .

My dad buys unwanted male dairy calves and rears them for beef. It's common.he is also a sheep farmer. Sheep have pretty good lives as it is almost impossible to intensively rear sheep. Which is also why lamb is more expensive than other meat.

I'd worry more about your £4 chicken rather than lamb and veal.

Sheep are considered lambs until they are 12 months old at which point they are full grown and mature enough to have there own offspring. Veal comes from young calves. Consider the size of a leg of lamb, and the size of a newborn lamb, the joint of meat could not come from a newborn.

The Italians eat very young lambs at Easter
https://www.washingtonpost.com/recipes/butterflied-lamb-with-herb-sauce/

Many humans don’t get a humane dignified death either.

This is so true. Also sheep have medical treatment on tap. The vet will come out almost immediately for an emergency, we're able to administer medicines and a very sick animal is put down rather than left to suffer. That is not true for humans in this country.

Actually, it's fine to eat veal. I really like it. I think if meat-eaters differentiate between types of meat they are being a bit hypocritical - you either eat animals or you don't.

I don't have a problem with eating veal so long as the calves haven't been kept in cages, and I believe this practice was stopped a long time ago in this country.

I agree.

This argument is nonsense. There are people hello have died protecting wild animals from poachers. I guess they don't really care about animals because they traditionally eat animals in their culture?

People who foster cats, dogs and birds but go down to their local farm shop for produce. Nah, they don't really like animals.

Hmm.

Yes, rose veal is available local to me where the calf has been kept at foot with its mother.

In case anyone is interested in supporting very high welfare farmers, here are a few places they can buy meat and dairy - all worth a follow on instagram if you want to see more about their methods

i don’t have any connection with them other than being a customer

https://www.theladiesorganickefir.co.uk/

https://www.theethicaldairy.co.uk/

https://ethicalbutcher.co.uk

This. But also I think a lot of what is sold as lamb is actually not from a lamb as such, but really mutton.

(NB I don’t eat meat at all so don’t need to be corrected if I’ve got this wrong)

Those who say it’s because of the living conditions - why do people still eat pigs then when farrowing cages are still used?

Regardless, when you find out how they’re killed, how they lived doesn’t matter so much 💔

There's no humane way to kill an animal that doesn't want to die. A slaughterhouse is a terrifying way to go.

Would you choose for a puppy or kitten to be born, have a 'nice' life only to be sent to a slaughter house a few months later? So why is that okay for other animals