Can't handle conflict

[GothicArmour]

Can anyone advise how a quiet, unconfident person can get others to listen to them without creating a huge fuss/ drama?

For context, I've struggled with managing conflict my entire life, mainly due to growing up in an emotionally abusive, invalidating environment where I was bullied/ shut down and silenced if I ever tried to express an opinion or push back or open up about my feelings.I think fundamentally, I learnt that it was wrong to express myself or disagree and that somehow, I mattered "less" than other people and so I became a people pleasing shell in adult hood.

I'm trying to change my ingrained ways lately and grow a backbone but really not succeeding! I had a situation recently where a close relative was constantly taking the piss ( belittling me/ talking over me/ making sly digs/ not keeping promises etc ) and rather than ignoring, I exploded. It's as if I had bottled things up so much I couldn't contain it anymore and although it didn't get to the shouty stage my anger was apparent and looking back, I can see I was aggressive in my tone. The ramifications being, that she is now not talking to me. I just wanted her to reflect on her actions and was hoping that she'd want to talk things over and try and gain a little understanding of how I feel, but it appears that I've pushed her away. I do know I spoke harshly and that was wrong.

I think the lesson I've learnt is to not say anything ever, and to keep on taking the shit because if I ever try and stand up for myself this is the result! I've tried to put my point across before in a nice calm manner But it was ignored and the angry, confrontational style is clearly not appropriate so how do I do it? deep down I don't want to live this repressed life anymore .

I could have written your post - other than the last paragraph

I hate confrontation and have zero confidence

Your relative sounds like she had that coming for along time, so stop the guilt and let her fuck off, you are better off without

I have a female relative who knows this and she contently makes sly digs every single time I see her and it has recently got to the point where I avoid her like the absolute plague because it is either that, or I go off my head like you did recently - and it is only a matter of time because I cannot avoid her forever....but I dont mind a falling out, I actually dont want her in my life

Even my H said to me lately, 'not a single member of your family ever say anything nice, about you or to you, they are all toxic af?' ....it got so bad that as soon as I am out of the room, my relative says things to my husband like 'and you married that'....... My H used to like her, but now he cannot stand being around her at all, and same for me

Stop having such a Martyr Complex - you know keeping quiet and taking shit is not the answer - you are better off without this idiot in your life

Let me tell you now, this person does not like you and they cannot make it more obvious - so let sleeping dogs lie and have no contact with them. It is about time we reclaimed some self respect

If you didn't 'get shouty' I think you might already be doing it right OP, is it possible that this is just this person's reaction to you standing up for yourself and them not liking it? If you're generally a people pleaser it would come as a shock to someone expecting you to roll over and it says a lot about them that their reaction is to 'punish' you. What I mean is that maybe the problem isn't you, givers do tend to attract takers and takers don't like it when you try to assert boundaries, however nicely you word it.

Sometimes conflict or confrontation is unavoidable to avoid being trampled on.

You can’t reason with unreasonable people.

Your relative was unreasonable here. You were pushed to your limits and you exploded. That was literally the last straw.

You have tried to put your point across and it failed. It wasn’t you that failed.

What exactly are you struggling with?

You don’t have to ask permission or look for acceptance from anybady. You are entitled to say „no” and walk away when faced with uncomfortable situation.
Good line to say is „no, it doesn’twork for me” or „let me get back to you on that”. The latter applies if you feel put on the spot and don’twant to agree to something.
Opinion of the other people doesn’t matter. You live your life for yourself,not for the others. So what if they call you selfish or difficult just because you don’t agree to their agenda that is detrimental to you.
Emotionally mature people can take „no” for an answer without throwing a tantrum like a child.

People who bring nothing but stress to your life are not worth having around. Build your life with people who want to be with you and accept you,not the ones who are contantly looking for faults,flaws and critisise.

@GentrifiedLDN thank you and sympathies for also inheriting a toxic family. It's very painful and the same old dynamics never seem to fade away with time. Unfortunately, this relative is actually the best of the bunch; when she's being nice she can be lovely! However, the nice part usually coincides after I've counselled and listened to her for hours. So take what you will from that!

@HerAvatar

Yes I'd agree with that- they're not used to me pushing back or trying to implement a boundary. I'm just disappointed in myself for losing control as I'm not an angry person by nature and somehow feel this will be turned around to make me look like the bad guy - " oh, gothicarmour was sooo horrible to me the other day" whilst the other members of the toxic clan will sagely agree. I think they call it scapegoating

@FrenchBoule

Wise advice. The part about me feeling like I've failed really hits home because that's exactly it. It takes so so much of my emotional energy and resilience to fight back, that when it doesn't go to plan or lands on deaf ears it's hard to endure. Makes me want to carry on being the punchbag as it's somehow easier to stay in this defined role, when in my heart of hearts I don't want this at all I want to break free and be heard!

I have no advice but I am in the same situation. Trying to stand up for myself and make myself heard is just making everyone walk out of my life so I'm now trying to figure out if I should stay a people pleasing doormat or be completely alone.

The dynamics defo never do
I can feel super confident until I run in to her - and then all of a sudden, I am a kid again

With your relative - it sounds like they are emotionally dumping on you - do they ever ask you how YOU are doing?

In some ways , but I wouldn't say she's been as involved or interested in my life as I have hers. For example, she's had a few long standing problems with her work and I've been the first one to help out and support whereas I couldn't confidently rely on her to help me out ( infact, this was a part of my gripe resulting in me losing my shit). Without being too outing, it wasn't directly myself that needed her help ( I have learnt never to ask for myself) it was someone very close to us who I've been looking after due to severe health problems - she promised to do multiple things to assist but didn't bother. But that's a whole new thread in itself! Yes, I recognise that feeling of shrinking back to being a child again in their company. When she was belittling me i could physically feel myself colouring up, anxiety sky high, voice shaking and timid. Horrible feeling

@learninghowtosetboundaries
I'm sorry you're going through similar. There must be a middle ground somewhere - where you can be considered and heard as a person in your own right without the backlash of being ostracized for daring to speak out if someone hurts you. But as someone said upthread you can't reason with the unreasonable

So sorry others are experiencing this. I had a 'family' like this and walked away at a young age and never went back. It's horrible, desperately lonely and heartbreaking when you have to make a hard choice either way but you're not loved, cared about or valued. You're just a scapegoat and a punchbag who can't do anything right and will just get attacked either way. There was nothing to stay for and so nothing to lose except their nastiness. You can't win. I ended up completely alone in life but am still better off.

They're the people who are supposed to care, support and be there against a world that can be lonely, uncaring and sometimes cruel. It's the worst when it's the enemy within. They don't like it and blame you when you don't play your part.

Your hard choices are to have very firm boundaries with them like "if you carry on putting me down I'm going and perhaps we'll meet again in six months when you're calmer" or walk away for good. It's a horrible way to live but you deserve better.

I would recommend listening to Jerry Wise lifetime coach on YouTube on Enmeshed families and techniques to differentiate between them and you, and find your own voice.

I admire your strength , that must have taken some guts to walk away entirely. I think I'm coming to realise that my problem with managing conflict and asserting myself is only part of the problem - ifof course the real, bigger issue is my entire family dynamic and how the bullying and gaslighting has damaged me and my self esteem is rock bottom. I tried to walk away many years ago but circumstance pulled me back time and again. The relative who currently isn't talking to me, is really the only family member that I thought was different, well who I desperately hoped was differnt , but the sniping and fall out from my standing up for myself, is proving the opposite.

Thanks for replying. It's the drip drip effect that will chip away at you. Of course if you walk and stay away then you have nobody so I'm sorry to say in all honesty there's fallout whatever you do and that's why it's so hard.

In 'families' like this they're so enmeshed with gossip and yes bullying and gaslighting that you never know where you are with anybody and can't win whatever you say or do, or don't. You could make excuses for them, play nice or try and play along for a 'quiet' life but then you become a punchbag. If you stand up for yourself, you're the aggressor and troublemaker because you're not fitting their narrative.

If you Google scapegoat in the family, narcissists and flying monkeys that will be an eye opener, as will the Stately Homes thread in relationships.

Please protect yourself either way as they don't have your best interests and if you can, hope you can build a better life outside of them.

@loseridiot

Thank you, you are so insightful , I'm sorry you got dealt a shitty hand too.- what you have written pretty much sums up what it's like to be around this family. It's very difficult when no one understands. I try to speak to friends about all the game playing and twists and turns but they have ' normal' families so it's hard for them to grasp. They'll tell me to just stick up for yourself or tell them where to go, but the backlash from this is horrendous as I'm painted as the unreasonable one or the too sensitive one or the trouble maker...

I have to make some hard decisions, but it scares me enormously to be completely alone, although I already am in reality. I will have a look at the stately home thread , because really need to talk with people who get it and all the nuances.

I used to be very much like this: most of the time I was a complete doormat and would then go from 0 to 60 in seconds when I reached my limit and lose my shit which would leave me looking like I was in the wrong even though I'd been pushed as far as I could go. You lose the moral authority if you do this.

I inherited this from my mum who was pretty passive and believed she always had to put others first so when she did allow herself to get angry it led to days-long sulks, leaving her looking petty and vindictive.

The trick is to learn how to politely but authoritatively push back as soon as something doesn't work for you, before it gets to the point of resentment. It's much better to be politely direct early on than appear to go along with stuff until it prompts you to go mad. Going mad a) upsets people and b) confuses them because you've previously indicated that it's OK so it's a really bad look.

I set a standard in my current relationship (six years ago) that I would immediately communicate disagreement, discomfort or irritation, politely and kindly but firmly, and it's worked. It means my partner knows very clearly what my values and opinions are so doesn't continue to ask me to do things I don't like. And it means I don't allow resentment to build up.

It didn't come naturally to me: I had to really practice and you have to be prepared to push yourself out of your comfort zone but it ultimately makes for stronger relationships and it will make people respect you more.

When she talks over you just keep talking but louder. When she belittles your ask her to repeat it and then quiz her on what she means. Don't let anyone be rude to you. Once you let them away with it they think they can continue. Every time she does it, pull her up and ask her what she means and when she explains just say 'well that is not very nice.' If there are other people there, repeat what she said to you and ask others what they think of her statement.

Despite a lovely happy family upbringing I too grew up massively conflict-averse. I ended up a doormat, martyr, and miserable with it; with the odd meltdown thrown in when it all got too much to bear.

Read up about "avoidant" relationship types, and if you can consider some therapy I can highly recommend it.

The most valuable trick for me was to rehearse - if you know someone is going to be rude/overstep the mark/take the piss you can practice a "no" sentence/action so when you need to use it you don't need to think about it.

And for being talked over with the intention of belittling/ignoring, as soon as someone starts talking I immediately stop talking, look at them, wait until they have finished, pause, then resume what I was saying. Rinse and repeat.

I am still pretty conflict averse but better at handling it now.

Thank you all for some brilliant advice. In the case of my relative I don't think any of this will work unfortunately as it's too mired in the ( toxic) family dynamic I'm coming to realise. But that's another matter. However, the case of me having no voice and regularly feeling like a doormat and unable to express myself extends to lots of facets of my life, so I'll be trying these techniques. I got ' told off ' the other week by a friend for being unable to make a cup of tea correctly believe it or not, but rather than tell them to make their bloody own, I meekly did it in the way they thought was right and never said a word! A quick ask for them to repeat themselves and pointing out that's not nice, could have worked wonders there. I sound utterly pathetic that at my age I haven't worked all this out by now, but I've been very well trained never to disagree!

Firstly, it's not your fault that your relative pushed and pushed till you displayed a bit of anger. It's the toxic dynamic that is at fault not you. Your reaction sounds entirely normal and reasonable.

A book I've found helpful is this : https://www.amazon.co.uk/When-Say-Feel-Guilty-Systematic/dp/0553263900

It gives really practical techniques and examples of how they can be used.

Thanks for your lovely reply and I'm sorry others experience this. Although good advice given on here about being assertive and finding a middle ground rather than an all or nothing approach, you could try but my personal experience is these people don't respond to assertiveness because they're dysfunctional in the first instance.

They just push their own agendas and refuse to listen to reason or compromise.

It's not you, it's how you've been trained and that affects all your life. I learnt having stock phrases when other people have been pushy or unkind. It took me years being quiet and shy as well but it stops the behaviour and you'll feel proud of yourself. You sound a lovely person who doesn't want to offend but the question is do they care about your feelings? No.

For example, some colleagues have made low level racist remarks to me when their demands are unrealistic. I say "we don't accept that sort of language here". Not rude but not letting it escalate in them thinking I'm a doormat. Please try them.

As for your 'family' you can't win either way. It's awful whichever path you choose but you really don't deserve unkindness.

@loseridiot

I really appreciate your empathy. Thank you. I agree, I've had some great advice on how to negotiate myself through trying situations and people taking the mick, but it would be wasted on my family. I'm having to learn other types of tactics to deal with them until I feel I can fully walk away. They will not change neither will they ever respect me as a person. I know this logically isn't my fault and nowadays I'm trying more and more to stop the self flagellation and stop looking inwards as to why they treat me so poorly. They're messed up but they have no self awareness, so for them everyone else is the problem! It's hurt me so much for the one ' lovely ' relative to react the way she did when I dared to push back and tell her to stop with the insults and belittling comments, alongside pulling her up about her broken promises - but I've reflected a lot on this thread, and really she's built in the same mould as the others. Selfish, self absorbed, fundamentally unkind. I served a purpose for her as an advisor and faithful listener for a long time and her niceness towards me was based on what I was giving, as soon as I pulled her up for shitty behaviour she quickly exited. I'll be taking a backseat with her from now on in. I can't remove her entirely from my life for quite complex reasons, but I'm seeing her more clearly for who she really is.

You sound like a lovely sensitive soul. Sounds like you're winning in dealing with horrible characters - how utterly vile to throw out racist insults when you challenge bad behaviour. There really are nasty peo ok e in the world, just a shame for people like you and i to have them as our family too

@GothicArmour

Thanks again for your kind reply. Yes, they are too ingrained, feed off each other and always have to be in the right instead of considering other people's viewpoint and trying to find a respectful common ground where a mutually supportive relationship can take effect.

Many scapegoats stay as they're frightened to be alone, because it's 'family' or they hope if they throw enough 'mud' these people will finally see the light and value them. They don't. Everybody plays a role and they react with anger, guilt tripping or the threat of alienation if you don't play your part.

You're intelligent and self-aware. Something always happens eventually where the scales fall from your eyes. In the case of this lady, yes you were giving her what she needed so was nice enough to keep you around before the mask slipped again.

You sound such a lovely insightful person and eventually either way you deserve much better than this. Hopefully you'll get to a point where you realise when you can only rely on yourself and have to look after yourself difficult as that is, you have nothing to lose against this behaviour.

OP, good for you wanting to continue growing and changing !

I think the skill you never learned is assertiveness and is a valuable one to work on throughout life. Read up also on 'toxic families'; it sounds like you had one too.
Another resource I think you might find helpful is YouTube clinical psychologist Dr. Jonice Webb. She does an excellent series of free educational videos on what she calls CEN, childhood emotional neglect. It is not about what happened to you, it is about what didn't happen for you as a child and you can recover from it! She gives practical advice on how to change. She is incredible.