Is all senior leadership this awful?

[Claycreation]

Name changed for this.

I work in the public sector, started on the "shop floor". A couple of years ago I was promoted to senior leadership at the place I have worked for many years. I really want to influence change for the better. What I found was a culture of office politics and ambition with my colleagues being, frankly, awful people. No worried, disappointing but I can get a job somewhere else.

Started my new job a few months ago. After a good start the shine came off and its the same thing. Ambitious people competing with each other. I am so fucking disheartened. Is this how it is? At a certain level is it all just ambitious wankers whose primary concern is outsmarting their colleagues to get ahead? Has anybody else experienced this?

IME it is all like that.

This was one of the reasons I deliberately took a step back down again a few yeares back. Almost everyone I was working with was a deeply unpleasant person.

I also stepped down. Too many big egos.

Yeah, it's eternal. Some places are better or worse, but there'll always be at least a couple.

You can read Marcus Aurelius' Meditations to learn how to take the high road and Machiavelli's The Prince to recognise the game even if you don't want to play it, and simultaneously feel proud of reading the classics and a bit depressed at how little has changed in nearly 2 millennia.

Then you need to look at your pay packet vs the shop floor, and if it's not much more, quit, or if it is much more, appreciate your good luck and do your best to make it a decent place to work for you and your team.

One of the many reasons I’m now self employed … I’m poorer but no more BS!

I read it many years ago but should pick it up again with a different focus!

I was in a management role for a while when I got a senior leadership job. I have no "team" anymore, or I do but I am so far displaced from them it doesn't feel like it. When I was a manager I felt I was able to make positive changes that were tangible but I hit a wall where too many things were out of my control hence applying for promotion.

I know it sounds daft but it's just so fucking depressing. This is why everything is so fucking terrible isn't it? It's why we are doomed. The people running the show are mostly awful. I had one colleague in my old job who seemed to share my values but all that meant is that he was the scapegoat for everything it was like the only kept him around to blame.

In my experience, in nearly every organisation, the further up the career ladder you go, the more like this it gets. As you climb, you often get further and further from the reasons you wanted to work there to start with and from the skills and qualities that landed you a promotion in the first place. Yes, an awful lot of time, energy and effort - in any senior role - can be expended managing other people’s egos, agendas, and the stupid politics that comes with it all.

I’ve been a PA and EA for over 20 years in various industries and company sizes - working closely with senior execs and seeing and hearing the stuff that other employees aren’t privy to.

There is a LOT of ego and BS amongst senior leaders in every industry but there are always exceptions who manage to climb the ranks by being brilliant at their job (shocker) and great with people. Even those types need a special kind of confidence that means they simply don’t care if not everyone likes them.

My current company is genuinely great and the reason is that the culture - and therefore the type of leaders who it attracts and rewards - starts at the very top. If a company’s chairman / CEO and board are genuinely talented, visionary, decent, and have integrity that trickles down through the whole company. Then anyone who has a huge ego, or who is just after money and power with no scruples, stands out like a sore thumb and doesn’t last long. Four of the most senior global leaders I work with are also four of the genuinely nicest, most impressive people I’ve ever worked with.

So in short - companies with decent leaders do exist but they’re rare. Keep looking!

Yes, I’ve worked in HR for 15 years across different companies and most senior leadership I’ve dealt with (with very few exceptions) have been awful. Huge egos, disrespectful, just horrible people.

Senior management in my smallish company (I'm one rung down) are all big egos and mostly incompetent. All male, come to think of it... My boss is the best of them and does have some principles, does listen sometimes... but there is definitely a management culture of believing you know it all, not listening to underlings, and being sneery about anyone not having a "positive attitude to change" even if the change is crap and poorly executed 🙄 ok, rant over! But I do suspect most senior managers very much believe their own hype.

and being sneery about anyone not having a "positive attitude to change" even if the change is crap and poorly executed

Have they thought of a career change to the NHS

Yep. Chief health and social care commissioner I am looking at you 👀. Chief pen pusher more like.

Dymaxion I can tell you work in the NHS! 😂

Secondary school teacher here…say no more 😂

Definitely all about the person who can talk the talk and makes it a priority to escape the classroom and forget all about the realities of teaching 5 lessons a day.

Couldn't disagree more, I'd say 75% of the ones I've worked with have been excellent.

Yes. Sadly.

Ego will always override everything else!

it’s very frustrating, but predictable now so I won’t bother trying to change lanes again. Keep my head down and let them wear themselves out playing their stupid one up man ship games.

It’s actually pathetic.

I know someone going through this at the moment. Management failing to manage staff. People taking the piss, doing the bare minimum, if that, and letting others pick up the slack. 5 people all at the same level, should have same skills but one person gets dumped on because the others are too work shy and leave it to the do-er. Makes me so angry!

I work at a large Further Education College. Senior Management are dreadful. All on huge salaries and yet think it is fine have lecturers on really low salaries. Gave themselves a 10% rise we got 2% (we are different to schools). Also just spent a great deal of money putting in another layer of Management so they no longer need to deal with the majority of staff.

Unfortunately, what you describe is all too common. In my experience, people rise to their natural level of incompetence.

I work for a charity in London with some really awful, cliquey, backstabbing senior managers

The results is s a high staff turnover and poor reputation...

Only last week 4 people left for other jobs. Another one just disappeared the week before without even serving their notice.

So my point is poor leadership has a huge, negative impact on staff morale and the organisation's ability to function.

Yet, these problematic senior managers have been in their jobs for years so they continue to create a bad atmosphere while decent employees just cut their losses and quickly move on to better things. The poor reputation is spreading so the charity also struggle to recruit staff in the first place.

I am job-hunting to get out of that place as soon as I can...

My ndn is wetter than an otters pocket and training to be an SLT.

I wonder if she knows I can hear her yelling through the walls? 🤔