11 year old son said Andrew Tate is not that bad

[Gellhell]

He's 11. I have tried to explain the issues but he's ignoring me. Am ibu to ask do you have any child friendly resources I can share with ds?

There is nothing child friendly about anything you can say about him.

amp.theguardian.com/technology/2022/aug/06/andrew-tate-violent-misogynistic-world-of-tiktok-new-star

Perhaps you can ask him why its ok to hate, abuse and degrade women and girls.

Can you find him a selection of non toxic male role model on social media/podcasts? Perhaps a fitness coach/sportscar enthusiast/malefashiontips? Your son may be seeking male guidance/self improvement and finding it in the wrong place

There’s a documentary on Tate on the BBC iPlayer worth a watch

At 11 years old I'd be getting rid of phones or whatever he watches that sort of shit on until he's old enough to do some critical thinking.

My boys went through this phase last year. I hate to say it but to dismantle the arguments it's really important to listen to what he says. The truth is that a lot of what he says is appealing. He talks about a crisis in masculinity and how it's important for boys to work hard every day which is true. The point I made to my boys is that why is it so different when he says it to anyone else? Eg, school teachers and people who know and care for them. We also had a conversation and did a mind map of what positive masculinity looks like and the differences. I think if you just argue it will fall on deaf ears. Good luck.

Trying to persuade him that AT is no good is the wrong angle to start from IMO.

Read some of the articles about why he appeals to boys of that age group, talk to your son to find out what he admires about him, try to see it from your son's perspective. Fully understand that/get into his head, and you'll have more of an idea of whether there are perspectives or life experiences that he's lacking or things that don't match your understanding and start there.

Just lecturing or persuading is likely to push him further into a world where you're wrong and AT (etc) is right.

Why are you allowing your son to watch/read things about Andrew Tate?

At 11 what has he got access to that he has heard about the philosophy of Tate?

I'd be getting rid of it ASAP.

YABU that you've let it get to this stage at age 11

Being fair to the OP here - by the time a child gets to 11 it's impossible for parents to police absolutely everything - her son might only be aware of AT because of other kids talking about him at school - and that's where he'd get a basic understanding of his philosophy

@Gellhell please ignore posters who are asking how your dc has seen AT. It’s all over all SM media platforms for boys of that age. Honestly, it’s impossible to ignore.

Obviously don’t take away his devices as suggested by pp - a sure fire way to close down discussion, push your child away and escalate this situation.

I would really recommend the BBC doc that pp suggested. This will give you an understanding of the influence of AT on boys of your sons age.

@BertieBotts ‘s advice is spot on.

My Grandson is10 when he spoke about Andrew Tait, my daughter had a chat with him,he does not like him now.
The other boys in his peer group like him and he has explained why he doesn't but it makes no difference.
I would not take away tech though, because although it's horrible your son likes him, it is his opinion, and what are we saying to the child, you can only have opinions if they are mine. He will grow up soon enough and realise what a nasty misogonist man Tait is.

Not for your son. For you! Can I suggest you read Laura Bates "Men Who Hate Women". Tate is the thin edge of a wedge. You can't engage with this without help and understanding. This is grooming, no matter how he come into contact with it. Don't underestimate their power to influence. That is what they are about.

Thanks all. His content is set on his phone to 11 year old max but he has still seen it somehow.

Does he have a dad/uncle/grandad/male family friend who understands the issue and could have a chat with him about this? It might be easier for them to talk to him about what a ‘real man’ is and why it doesn’t involve treating women like shit.

They are going to see some things you would rather they didnt. Use it as a good opportunity to explore the topic together.

@BounceyB and @BertieBotts have got it spot on.
I used to work with people who held delusional beliefs. We were taught that the worst thing to do is argue with them. You needed to understand their point of view and gently explore it with them.
By coming down hard as some PP suggest, this could strength his beliefs by 'proving' how 'irrational' his mum is.

I’ve watched the documentary about him on iPlayer with my 11 year old ds. Some would argue it’s a bit too old for a child that age but I think if they’re seeing AT stuff online and having opinions about it all then it’s important to present the full picture and have proper discussions about it. We had some really good chats about it all off the back of it and now he thinks AT is the arsehole he really is.

100% this.

I had a similar experience with my son at a similar age. My son is now an adult. He grew out of it. I wanted to take all sorts of steps to address the situation, thankfully my mum talked me out of it and persuaded me to go with this kind of approach.

I would recommend against making Andrew Tate forbidden fruit.

Tell DS you have been reading a new parenting guru who has brilliant ideas on raising teens to be subservient and obedient. He needs to wear skimpy clothes, shoes he can;t move in, never voice an opinion and do exactly what he's told when he's told. He has to serve you as you are the revered adult and he is just a child. Try to sound really serious and authoritative when you say all this. He'll reject the ideas and you can pretend to insist and ask what he thinks the problem is. He'll say and then point out this is what AT expects of women and no human worthy of respect would demand that of another human being.

My DS was a supporter of Andrew Tate from the ages of 12 -14. He's now 15 and much less enamoured with him, and more balanced in his views.

When DS first announced that he liked him I was horrified but didn't show it. Like some PPs have suggested, I just had some conversations with him where I expressed an interest, and we explored the topic, but I didn't say that he shouldn't listen to him or that I thought he was wrong. I think for my DS, it was partly that he liked AT's views on having a work ethic, plus he was going through a bit of a rebellious phase. But now he can see the bigger picture and has said that he doesn't agree with AT's views on women and doesn't listen to him any more.

Be curious and interested, and encourage him to explain his philosophy. There’s a huge difference between nodding along, and articulating these things yourself. I know I’ve often found the hole in an argument when I tried to repeat it. It’s why schools and universities used to put such an emphasis on “explain in your own words what is meant by…”

Don’t make your ds feel wrong, because alienation is the breeding ground for scum like AT.

There is a complete absence of decent role models for men because our culture has torn down all the heroes, and rejected religion. We demand absolute purity without nuance.

It’s much more powerful to agree that AT has some good points than to dismiss everything he says outright. Hitler had a few good points too.

This is an excellent chance to get your ds thinking critically - don’t lecture him, just listen. And keep him talking by asking mild things like “and what else? And what did YOU think of that?” or if you want to challenge him”do you really think so?” Or reflect back “so what you’re saying is …?”

Sadly all it takes for for philosophies like AT's to flourish is for phrases such as toxic masculinity to become mainstream.

Boys want to be proud of who they are. The world doesn't give them that at the moment but Tate does, at least superficially.

I disagree with a lot of posters. I think an intelligent 11 year old can understand that one of the problems with Tate is that he believes men are in charge of women and be allowed to boss women around. He is perfectly old enough to be told that you find that unacceptable.
It isn't just Tate's views towards women that I dislike. He is very materialistic. He is always mentioning his wealth and his cars.
Twenty years ago, I remember my DS, at age 11 was very interested in high performance cars. Happily this was just a stage and DS, now in his 30s, is a left-leaning, Green voter who doesn't even have a driver's licence - although I wish he had.

I think.the problem is there are no realistic mail role models. So Tate sees a big gap in the market.

Men the media build up as role models, don't pass the authenticity test on Social Media.

He’s the hyped up ultra alpha that appeals to the boys who would’ve played with wrestling figures and watched WWF back in the 90s. His beliefs and philosophies however are something else, that young boys are being exposed to them is going to cause some significant issues. He represents a clear threat to women and girls and for that reason alone you need to find out how and where your son saw this material.

There's a You Tube series exposing all his lies. Channel is called Common Sense. He's a fraud.