To think that dogs are not born anxious

[bonbon2023]

And that their owners make them the way they are?

I'm on a couple of Facebook groups for the breeds of dogs I own and the amount of reactive/anxious dogs is getting ridiculous now. I'm seeing countless posts a day to the point I've left the groups. Dogs are not born this way it's what you do in bringing them up. The not ever leaving a dog to settle/be alone. Thinking a dog won't survive home alone if you leave the house for 5/6 hrs. A normal dog can be but the helicopter dog ownership is not helping them at all. And they are creating a rod for their own back, therefore ending up with a dog they can't control (or is controlling them) and then they are ending up rehomed. The final straw for me was a woman asking if she could give her dog a raw chicken wing that the butcher had given her saying her dog would love it, the comments went wild saying she shouldn't give her dog it, to the point she just threw it away. Some even telling her to freeze it first for two weeks 🤦🏻‍♀️
Dog ownership has changed massively in the last 10/15 years (since socially media) it's like dogs aren't treated like dogs anymore or aren't allowed to be because their owners are an anxious mess themselves 😬

I can't be the only one who thinks like this?

YABU. Dogs can be born anxious in the same way that humans can be born anxious - there are absolutely genetic elements, and less-than-scrupulous modern breeding practices has a lot to answer for. Additionally, in a not dissimilar way to humans, our awareness of these things is much greater than it was in the past so you’re bound to see more instances of it.

I think some dogs are more likely to be reactive and anxious but many dogs just need to be dogs and not treated like almost humans.

Oh my god you are not wrong.
We've had dogs for 20 years. No one had dog walkers outside of Londone and New Year. I never saw dog in a coat or any other article of clothing.
Dogs were happily off leads, the occasionally were dicks and had fights. Some worse than others but we all cracked on. Dog psychologists didn't exist here. You walked them, fed them kibble, played with balls and sticks and let them sleep on the sofa or bed.
The over anxious dogs in the park with over anxious owners do my head in. Be loving, firm and walk them in lots of different places.

Partially, the same with all the anxious children.

Of course dogs can be born anxious. Look at a litter of puppies and see the different personalities they have!

I agree that a lot of what people do doesn’t help. Training dogs to ignore other dogs then complaining their dog is reactive.

But some dogs could have been abused or attacked and we don’t know their full story.

Kind of agree though. I rarely meet a reactive dog, but every dog on MN is reactive and it’s never the owners fault apparently. Always other dogs/owners to blame.

@KrisAkabusi funny you should say that, I'm a dog breeder and have been seen lots of litters (one lot left me yesterday) yes they had different personalities but all were confident lively pups. Never had a quiet anxious one and been doing this for years.

We have a rescued greyhound who was mistreated before we adopted him. He is covered in scars. He is a spook (a form of canine autism than can be hereditary in some of the racing grey family lines). He is anxious and struggles with new situations and people. None of this is due to helicopter dog ownership or us treating him like a precious flower. It's partly genetic and partly as a result of mistreatment. He is not a typical dog. Nobody wanted to adopt him as he is male, very large, older, and had been in kennels for a really long time. He has really bloomed in a loving family home but there will always be things he struggles with. Oh and greys have to wear coats in winter because they have very fine fur and virtually no body fat. Their breed originated in Egypt.

You are very wrong to say that dogs cannot be born with certain problems. Backyard breeders and people breeding dogs without caring about the health of the parent dogs (mental or physical) has created a massive problem -it has for years.

However, that does not mean owners do not create problems too. And some people do create problems in their pets through poor and ill-informed choices Sounds like you need to educate yourself on the matter.

YABVU.

Dogs can be born with problems just the same as humans can be.

It's also worth remembering that not all puppies are born to dogs of sound temperament, with good breeders and good socialisation opportunities.

People need to stop infantilising dogs and treating them like children. So disturbing.

Dogs are pack animals who feel secure with a well established leader and clear boundaries.

I disagree. The dog I have now I have had since she was 8 weeks old and was nervous from day one. She is now 17. I had at the same time (now passed away) a rescue dog that I took on at the age of 2. This dog was the most laid back dog ever despite having been abused in his first home. He came with some behaviour problems which we did overcome with him. Their personalities could not have been further apart. If anything I would have expected the rescue to have been of a nervous disposition. Same with people, some people are just naturally nervous, timid and introverted whilst some are the complete opposite.

I think they must do..we had two twins boy and girl puppies, one was confident and the boy had IBS..same training.
Although as he got older, about a year he was fine.

You've clearly never met a border collie!!

Dogs are pack animals who feel secure with a well established leader and clear boundaries.

Pack theory has been debunked. Dogs do like routine and consistent expectations.

I also think poor breeding practices are a factor in canine anxiety and this maybe exacerbated by inexperienced owners.

Temperament can absolutely be genetic in a dog. That’s why you should insist on meeting both parents if buying a puppy from a litter. Nothing to do with helicopter dog-rearing (lol).

Surely as a dog breeder yourself you know this? You’ve presumably never had an anxious puppy because you’ve chosen the parents carefully with regard to their temperaments. A lot of breeders don’t.

It's the same as with children or any other animal. There's a genetic component to it, some people are just more predisposed to a nervous temperament than others but in my not expert opinion it's 80% upbringing.

We've had a lot of dogs and various pets but the ones spring to mind for me are my hamsters. One was very frightened when we got him. Terrified to the point that if he was eating or drinking I'd crawl on my hands and knees past his cage so as not to frighten him, otherwise he'd go hungry for hours as too scared to come back out.

After a few months of gentle handling and interactions he was a happy, confident little guy who came running at the sound of our voices.

Another one was bold and curious and interacting with us from day one.

Totally different little personalities but both raised the same and both turned out friendly.

Respectfully I disagree. My Labs came from a litter of 8 (actually 10 but 2 were lost). One was different from the get go, his litter handle was The Gentleman. He never played with his litter mates, he stayed on the perifery, he would sleep to the side of the pack and sat in the corner of the kitchen just quietly watching. We took him and his brother, who had been the runt of the litter. He grew into a lump of a dog who was laid back and devil may care. Our little shy boy never had inherent confidence. He was never reactive as we trained him well and gave him some resilience, he hid behind his brother a lot. But when anything was wrong he was under my legs like a shot, or up on the sofa/bed for a lean. There was one other pup in that litter that the breeder kept. She was a difficult dog, reactive and aggressive. The owner told me he thought maybe she was attacked when in the garden because he couldn't understand why whe was like this. The others were all solid dogs. I told him about mine and I think with a different owner he may have been worse. No doubt in my mind he was born this way. Polar opposite of his chilled brother. That pair never had a day apart and as I said - the signs were there from about 3 weeks old.

Pack theory was rubbished decades ago! It's utter bollocks! Even the guy who came up with the theory says so!
Perhaps do some research before spouting rubbish!

I think you're both right and wrong. Clearly some dogs are born with different temperaments, and the rise in backyard breeding and crossing breeds with traits that probably shouldn't be crossed has meant more anxious dogs being born. I mean, I only know a couple of pure-bred cockers and one poodle, but in there's no way I would have thought 'yeah, they'll make great, chilled out kids'.

And the way dogs are brought up and socialised plays into this too.

That said, there's absolutely no way I'd leave any dog alone for six hours and expect them to be OK with it. That's an unrealistic and unfair expectation.

I find that refusing to talk to other dog owners and actively avoiding other dogs when younger doesn’t help. The dogs where I am are socialised at a young age and none are reactive or anxious, 99% of them are well trained (one is a pain and everyone hates the owner).

Breeding is important, but being rude to other dog owners and not letting dogs greet will cause reactivity, and then it’s always the other owners fault.

In terms of the chicken wing - if it had bones in, then no it shouldn't have been given straight to the dog

We've fostered lots of pregnant dogs and looked after their pups. Within the same litter, there are lots of different personalities, including ones that are quite anxious and more reactive.

I think bad breeding is part of it, there needs to be much better regulation around needing at all levels.

When we got our dog she would shake uncontrollably when you tried to walk her, like as soon as she was outside the gate she was vibrating. It took months to get her to walk like our other dog did straight off the bat. We have treated her the same as our other chilled out, friendly with every other dog dog but she is just afraid of everything. She has been this way since she came to us at 12 weeks old. Visiting other people's houses leaves her with diarrhea for 2 days straight, if she had her way she would stay within the confines of our house/garden for the rest of her days. She has never ever been aggressive but I have never seen a dog vibrate with fear like she does on the regular.

I might have been judgey too before she came into our lives but I don't see how you think it is so implausible that a dog is born with a certain personality, some personalities are great, others not so much.