To resent the Life in the UK test?

[MooseBreath]

I will preface this by saying I am Canadian and have lived in the UK on a variety of visas for about 10 years. At 32 years old, this is basically my entire adult life.

I am finally at a point where I can become a permanent resident and can then apply for citizenship. In order to do this, I have to take the Life in the UK test. It is scheduled for later this month and I have bought the study guide and I am preparing to take the test so that I can continue living in the country with my DH and two British children.

Some of the knowledge required is absolutely ridiculous and a massive barrier to those with learning difficulties, those who speak English as a second language, or simply aren't highly educated. For example:

True or False: In 1500 the English defeated a large French fleet of ships that intended to land an army in England.

Which TWO facts relate to the UK's national heritage?
a. There are 25 national parks in England, Scotland and Wales.
b. All national parks are run by the National Trust.
c. There are 15 national parks in England, Scotland and Wales.
d. The National Trust is a charity that maintains much land and many historic properties.

Which TWO are famous British artists?
a. Thomas Gainsborough
b. Sir John Lavery
c. Benjamin Britten
d. Graham Greene

How many years did Mary Queen of Scots spend in prison?
a. 4
b. 11
c. 30
d. 20

How is this even remotely relevant to living in the United Kingdom in the 21st century? My DH (British born and bred, University educated to PhD level, excellent job) failed the practice test.

AIBU to be so resentful of having to learn all of this information to simply continue to live with my husband and children (and pay for the privilege)? I know I didn't have to move here and I didn't have to stay, but I met my DH whilst studying abroad and this is where life has led.

Not for everyone, no.

Well yeah but for those 2 and 3 still have no point since you either have UK taught degree or are from selected countries where English is the official language.

Agree re the degree argument, but tbh I know a few native English speakers, born in the UK, who would struggle with 2 and 3.

Comparing immigrants to citizens by descent is a strawman fallacy.
Let's leave morality aside, slightly for the moment and think more logically.
What a citizen by descent can or cannot do is irrelevant. The country has a responsibility to them. Otherwise you would be arguing for the revocation of rights for people with learning disabilities etc who can't pass a test.

However, a country absolutely has the right to decide who it allows to stay permanently. And the only concern with that is the sort of people it wants to allow in. This is through a combination of various things, including visa regulations, test, etc.

The UK has an ageing population and no more free flowing cheap EU labour so I wouldn't be surprised if this test was scrapped altogether at some time. Just like when it didn't exist... 2 decades ago.

I do think that, given the objective of the UK government so far to only allow in certain types of immigrants, it achieves that. Whether said objective is morally right or not is a different argument. As PP have pointed out, other countries have similar tests.

OP's reply to me talks about being a 'good british citizen' - she still doesn't quite get the point I'm making... never mind the irony of her own country also having a similar test.

Again, I definitely can't claim to be a conservative or anti-immigrant since I am one too. And same as the OP married a Brit and will need to sit the test. I have been through many, many immigration processes in various countries and I don't find this one particularly hard to be 'resentful' of. But then again, I'm not from a wealthy country like the OP.

My husband took the Life in the UK test (as did his whole family) and said the silliest thing about it is you can take it a countless number of times until you pass.

I was also under the impression it wasn’t completely a history test and that there were plenty of questions on civics, geography etc.

If you don't want to take the test then don't apply. I feel irritated when I filled in forms for even a holiday in certain countries. Bit annoying. But if I wanted to visit then I had to fill in the form.

If you don't want to take the test then don't apply. I feel irritated when I filled in forms for even a holiday in certain countries. Bit annoying. But if I wanted to visit then I had to fill in the form.

Yeah... what about if you had lived in those countries for up to a decade, paid taxes, paid up to £2,000 a time in visa applications and were raising children there? "Just don't apply if you don't like it" is a bit unhelpful here.

It's still not your country and you're there by the grace they're extending you to allow you to be there - until such time as you fill in a multiple-choice quiz to get to stay permanently.

Seriously it's a multiple-choice quiz.

I'm an immigrant (who has paid additional-rate taxes since I got here) and have zero issues with it. I'm very grateful to the UK for allowing me in and giving me a route to settle. They didn't have to do that.

I'm very grateful to the UK for allowing me in and giving me a route to settle

I find gratefulness weird unless you are asylum seeker whose life the move saved. Then I would get feeling of being grategul.

It's not like they took us in, cared for us, fed us. We just move, work, pay taxes like anyone else and when it goes to hell we move elsewhere. Being grateful for being allowed in is as weird as thinking country should be grateful to us for coming and paying into the system (as eea there is good chance we were net contributors).
It's hard to explain my feelimgs about that. Hope it makes sense.

There is a book which you can read that will help you revise for the test. It’s a way to try and ensure people coming into the country know about British history and culture.

Tbh I think the problem is not asking immigrants to learn these things, it’s about the fact current residents aren’t taught these things. I wish we placed much more focus on British culture and history in schools than we do.

I understand. I am indeed grateful because I always wanted to live in London and now I do, even though I appreciate that I do give back to London in turn through my taxes and being part of the community here. My point is that Britain didn't have to let me in - they would have been perfectly within their rights to deny my visa because every country has the right to control their own borders.

I don't mean to imply a supplicant/master relationship. If they hadn't let me in I would have done something else and been fine. But I don't think I have any kind of natural right to live in London, so I'm pleased that it's worked out and I'm happy to jump through comparatively very minor hoops to maintain my situation.

You appear to take the ability to move to, work and pay taxes in any foreign country you like for granted.
Maybe you have an EU passport, several citizenships, a major shortage profession etc and can move elsewhere when it goes to hell, at the drop of a hat but most immigrants cannot. That is why they choose a country that will actually allow them to build a life and stay, like the UK.
After having worked and contributed for a relatively short period of time you're allowed to get permanent residence through some very simple steps, including taking the test, the contents of which have been provided already for you to memorise.
As long as you visit the UK for a short period of time annually, you can keep this right to reside.

That's why if you have tried to move to a country with stricter rules (like me) you might find all this quibbling over a test silly.

maybe that's what @Middlelanehogger is trying to get across.

Country doesn't allow people in unless it needs them. It's mostly symbiotic relationship. Even within EU you still have to be valuable in some way otherwise you don't get a job etc. and go back home ie elswere. I am not taking it for granted just because I am not saying I am grateful. I am just aware that all sides benefit so neither me nor the country have to be grateful.

Citizenship of the U.K. is not a right. You can live here, pay tax, and have ILR.

Personally because ILR can be revoked in the U.K. I would take the test and stop whinging. But it's designed precisely not to be done straightforward administrative requirement, because being a citizen, as opposed to a resident, is a different thing. It's different in law, and thinking otherwise is a mistake.

If you can get citizenship I would. It's got tougher and tougher and the immigration rules more complex. As the law on this changes pretty much every year, wanting to live in the U.K. permanently on ILR is a mistake, in my view.

I think the test is fair enough. If someone wants to live here the least they could do is learn about our history. Other countries have similar tests and I think that's fair enough. I know almost nothing about the American war of independence or their civil war other than which side won and Gettysburg is somehow involved in one or the other. If I wanted to become American citizen I wouldn't have a problem in having to learn a bit about the country beforehand.

Slightly off discussion

True or False: In 1500 the English defeated a large French fleet of ships that intended to land an army in England.

Not a lot has changed then, we're still trying.