To resent the Life in the UK test?

[MooseBreath]

I will preface this by saying I am Canadian and have lived in the UK on a variety of visas for about 10 years. At 32 years old, this is basically my entire adult life.

I am finally at a point where I can become a permanent resident and can then apply for citizenship. In order to do this, I have to take the Life in the UK test. It is scheduled for later this month and I have bought the study guide and I am preparing to take the test so that I can continue living in the country with my DH and two British children.

Some of the knowledge required is absolutely ridiculous and a massive barrier to those with learning difficulties, those who speak English as a second language, or simply aren't highly educated. For example:

True or False: In 1500 the English defeated a large French fleet of ships that intended to land an army in England.

Which TWO facts relate to the UK's national heritage?
a. There are 25 national parks in England, Scotland and Wales.
b. All national parks are run by the National Trust.
c. There are 15 national parks in England, Scotland and Wales.
d. The National Trust is a charity that maintains much land and many historic properties.

Which TWO are famous British artists?
a. Thomas Gainsborough
b. Sir John Lavery
c. Benjamin Britten
d. Graham Greene

How many years did Mary Queen of Scots spend in prison?
a. 4
b. 11
c. 30
d. 20

How is this even remotely relevant to living in the United Kingdom in the 21st century? My DH (British born and bred, University educated to PhD level, excellent job) failed the practice test.

AIBU to be so resentful of having to learn all of this information to simply continue to live with my husband and children (and pay for the privilege)? I know I didn't have to move here and I didn't have to stay, but I met my DH whilst studying abroad and this is where life has led.

I understand there is a huge difference between the first online practice test everyone here passes easily (even me, English as 2nd language and never l stayed in the UK for longer than 2 weeks at a time) and the real one.

Anyway, working and paying taxes generally isn't understood to equal citizenship, that's what every gastarbeiter does.

It is a recurring topic in many discussions, maybe one of the leading questions of 21st century, what the citizenship actually means, what it should mean, what is it's relationship between citizenship and nationality, and to what extent the (mainly) birth privileges should apply. In the same time it is totally clear that the UK prefers relatively strong filtering, given how big topic was openness to EU citizens during the brexit campaign.

Citizenship means more than the right to stay an come back as you wish, it means right to vote, right to candidate in elections, right to co-decide about the country's future. It isn't that big ask to learn a bit about it's past first.

Sounds to me that you don't actually care about British citizenship, you don't plan to internally become a Britton; you see it just as an administrative step to get the rights you wish. If there was a way how to get some equivalent of Brexit pre-settled status, it might be a better fit for you, but afaik there isn't.

@ZiriForEver You make a very good point. I don't think I will ever see myself as British, even with the citizenship. I do very much see it as an administrative box-ticking exercise. I wish it wasn't that way, but there isn't really an alternative unless I were incredibly rich and could afford to continue renewing my spousal visa indefinitely.

@Fallenangelofthenorth marriage doesn't get you anything in the shitty game of UK citizenship unfortunately.

It's a bit more complex than that in the U.K. Commonwealth citizens ordinarily resident (including students) are allowed to vote. Not that a large proportion do. But if you are a Commonwealth citizen and have ILR you have the same rights as a citizen (except for getting highest level security clearance and maybe a few other obscure things). Provided you maintain the residence requirements of course.

I do agree that people wanting to get citizenship have to jump through some hoops. It's just not clear how high those hoops should be.

@MooseBreath FWIW the EU probably contributed to the citizenship test and other requirements being so onerous. No country can admit everyone who wants to come in and while there was freedom of movement of course the UK wanted to limit people coming in by other means, which is why the test, for the 'fewer' who needed to take it has been made more difficult.

Canada, by the way has a citizenship test with questions covering similar ground, e.g. history. Or is it the deliberately high-level language of the test that you object to?

I have taken the actual test and it was NOT two or 3 history question.

Alao. You don't get "repaid with citizenship". You still need to go through whole application process. It's just monetised extra which would be much better with emphasis on different topics than an obsession with Wars of Roses.

Well, it does not test useful knowledge as such. It tests the willingness to comply, i.e. someone accepting they will have to spend a few weeks memorising a bunch of totally random and useless trivia in foreign language, just because the government said so. I actually think it is not a bad test as such.

I am an immigrant too, by the way.

It sounds similar to the driving theory test type of thing as you have a book with all the information in to learn

That's actually an interesting point - what is the objective of the test?
OP, and indeed PP, seem to naively assume that that it's something to prepare someone for life in the U.K.
In a somewhat roundabout way OP has answered her own question. She agrees that one should have to "prove that they can abide by the laws and be a good member of the community".
Surely taking a test because that's the law is somewhat proof of that, regardless of whether or not you think it makes sense?

I have indefinite leave to remain - but i never had to do a test - I don’t have a British passport and i don’t want one - (I thought you took the test for the passport) - my original country doesn’t allow dual citizenship anyway. Yanbu - those questions are ridiculous.

The test was introduced in 2005 for ILR and 2007 for citizenship.

@JaneIntheBox Yes, I will be technically proving that I can abide by that law by taking the test. But it doesn't prove my knowledge of any other laws, British values, or how to behave in the expected manner. It shows that I know obscure facts about the Bronze Age (they burned their dead and disposed of them in cists), the year England won the World Cup (1966) and which British athlete first won the Tour de France (Bradley Wiggins). None of that information helps me be a good citizen, considering most British-born people I know don't know those things

The world cup question annoyed me as it didn't specify the sport!

Probably proves our ability to adhere to British value of being obsessed with success from long time ago and keep going on about it? 😂

You have to understand that, like most things that have come in in the last 10 years or so, this test is just a piece of political theatre to appease the Tory's voter base. They couldn't give a shit whether it is relevant to life in Britain or not just their that core base likes the fact that we are making filthy foreigners learn about the defeat of the Spanish Armada and the imprisonment of a Scottish Monarch by the English. Notice a theme to these questions?

Well yes, it's very clearly pandering to a very Conservative mindset about England's Britain's glory days or colonialism. It doesn't make it right!

Of course it is not right. But it is a reflection that English Nationalism has a significant voter base in this country and has been adopted by one of the main political parties as a result. There are lots of worse things that this has caused such as Brexit for one and the horrendous (if comically inept) treatment of asylum seekers.

Most countries have this. I spent some time living in Spain and they have the same - a compulsory language test unless you are from a Spanish speaking country, and the CCSE which is a test on constitutional and sociocultural knowledge.

60% of the questions are on law/government, 40% on culture. Lots of stuff about government departments, who was the Prime Minister in 1982, what is the longest river in Galicia. But there are also questions about poets, architecture and history. Although many are not that difficult.

This is so weird to me tbh. You've made up a monster and you're fighting both sides. All this crazy racist stuff is coming out of YOUR mouths, you know.

I'm not saying there aren't racists. And I'm not a Tory voter - I'm not a fool - I know which side of the class war I'm on. What I'm pressing on here is this rhetorical strategy where people say the most outlandishly bigoted things "as if" their political opponents are saying them, and then get super mad about it. It's the internet rage machine writ large.

But the study book is right there. We can all see what it says. It doesn't say those things. It talks a lot about how important diversity is in the UK, and covers religious festivals, the slave trade, and in the law part it makes it really clear that racial hatred is a crime and what to do about it if it happens to you. It also has solid information about taking your bins in and talking to your neighbours and jury service and voting.

I'm not saying people don't say or think or do racist or bigoted things. There's real injustice in the world and we must fight it. I really believe this and I have committed my working life to this as well.

But this study book is manifestly not that. It's right there. You can read it yourself. You don't have to work yourselves up into a frenzy based on a selectively edited thread and then a load of imaginary enemies you are throwing at each other.

@hallana - agree. You don't have to be a British citizen, this is a country with a long history, these questions will reward people who really want to be here. It's not a right of any kind to be a citizen.

If you just want to pay tax and have residency then don't take the test.

Though ILR can be revoked in the U.K., it's not permanent in all cases.

5.10.2 Being a good neighbour
When you move into a new house or apartment, introduce yourself to the people who live near you. Getting to know your neighbours can help you to become part of the community and make friends. Your neighbours are also a good source of help – for example, they may be willing to feed your pets if you are away, or offer advice on local shops and services.

I mean like this goes against any MN life value😂

I failed the test, I got 16, I had to guess some but I don't think it was particularly difficult. I have a dreadful knowledge of history and clicked a couple of wrong answers I did know but I was doing it quickly, but if I was intending on actually taking the test then I would have revised and passed easily I imagine.

I do think you should have to take this sort of test, it shows the effort put in and I think that you should also have a reasonable knowledge of the language. There is a variety of questions and some everyone should know if they live here, there are a few more difficult ones which is understandable.

I’ve taken the first 7 practice tests and passed them all. Most I got 22/23 answers right. There are some weird or obscure questions but even on the 4 in the OP I’d be fairly confident the first is false, second is c/d and third is a/b. For the last one I’d guess 20 years but I thought it was 18 and a bit years (maybe that was one occurrence and there was a shorter one earlier in her life 🤷🏼‍♀️)
I’m sure you will be able to pass with a few practice runs in lead up.

This may assist your revision

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/mumsnet_classics/1661032-Given-that-most-of-us-failed-the-on-line-British-Citizen-test-lets-make-up-our-own-questions-about-what-its-like-to-be-British

Look, by sitting the test you have already demonstrated that:

1. You do things that the government formally asks of you, even though you privately may think it is idiotic;
2. You are able to read a book in English and have sufficient reading comprehension to understand questions asked on the content;
3. You are able to operate a reasonably rich dictionary in everyday English, ranging from sports to media to history to geography;
4. You have sufficient working memory to memorise and correctly recall facts;
5. You are able to book a test, travel to the test site (they are not everywhere, I think there's a few in London, but otherwise it can be a few hours trip), turn up on time, behave in a reasonable manner when sitting it, get results.

It is not as stupid as you think, it is still a test, just not a test of knowledge. Most citizens of any country in the world probably do not "know" the laws of their country either.

I would just like to point out that 2 and 3 are covered under another £150+ test