Kids today won't know anyone from the war

[raindropbox]

Our grandparents or parents were children during the war, and they had stories from their parents or grandparents, who had lived experience of WW1.

So we had a direct connection with somebody with first-hand experience of the world wars. It just occured to me that babies born now won't have that.

Does that mean WW1/2 will feel as distant to them as the victorians do to us? Will it have some kind of subconscious impact on society?

I am 52. I have a 7 yr old. My Dad was born in 1925 and served in the 2nd World War in the Royal Navy. My mum was born in 1933 in London and was a schoolgirl during the war.

My Dad had malaria which he had recurrent illness from and terrible nightmares. He had a terrible raging temper that flew out from nowhere and affected us all but especially my mum. Other times he was kindhearted but lived in his head. He never talked about the war specifically but said he and his pals were desperate to be of age to join up before the war ended. They were young and wanted in on the action.
He was an intelligent man with a kind heart but when he had a drink his "irrational" hate of the Japanese during the war would occasionally surface. From what I can gather the ship he was on transported back prisoners of war from Japanese camps around the Pacific. What those men endured stayed with him forever and challenged what he thought of life and humanity.
My mum was a resilient strong Woman but until she died would go quiet and get tears in her eyes at any sound similar to an air raid siren or a whistle that sounded like the buzz bombs from the blitz. When people talked about the blitz spirit she'd roll her eyes and laugh scathingly.
What I'm saying is that as previous posters have said War leaves intergenerational memories and trauma. I remember and relate to my parents memories and the mental scars it left for them. Also it's important to remember that the people who lived what we only see as history were the people voting and shaping the world we now live in. We have to remember so that we are living and shaping the world consciously trying to not repeat ourselves and perpetuate the prejudices and lived traumas from before.
My daughter was definitely the only child taking in war medals to school during armistice day. She learns from stories handed down and this peaks her curiosity to question and learn in life. She watches the news and is aware of War in Ukraine and we chat about the effects.
Those posters talking about people banging on about the war really must live in a self absorbed shallow bubble.

Yes you'd need to be 92 to have been an adult (18) at the end of the war so actually have good memories of what life was really like

She would've been around 6 years old when WW2 ended so yes, she very likely does remember the war and was affected by it. I have strong memories of when I was 3 years old. I bet your life has been a lot easier than hers.

Ww2 ended 78 years ago didn’t it 🤔 those in the 80s now were children then so may have a limited memory of it.

My mother remembers a fair bit. Especially traumatic things like the sound of doodlebugs. Nights in air raid shelters etc.

She doesn’t remember being hungry or undernourished, and her growth wasn’t stunted by rationing! Working class too, so no silver spoon.

DUncle is 99, so was 15 when war broke out and he served as soon as he was old enough.
In the 1980s I was volunteering in a hospital and got talking to a 100 year old patient and he had served in the Boer war.

Can you really not see the answer to that question? If not then I genuinely despair. Hint - the clue is in first word of both those wars!

My grandfather was too old to serve in WW2, except as an ARP warden. He volunteered for WW1. His reasoning being that if you volunteered, you got a choice in what you did.

So how often do your kids sre their 3 generations removed cousin?
Or their Great Uncle?

I'm similar age to you but my kids are primary age.
Oldest living relatives are in their 70s the boomer generation.
My oldest was 4 when his great-grandfather died at 96 so he won't have much memory of him, never mind any stories of what life was like during the war.

I actually think this will be a good thing. WW1/2 (on the allies side) were necessary, however, I believe that in the long term they’ve held the UK back from its full potential. The obsession with those 2 wars and the way in which they are remembered and taught i.e ‘We won, we’re the best!’ Has been damaging.

When I was at school, history lessons boiled down to WW1/2, ‘we won!’, ‘a bit about the holocaust, King Henry the 8th and the Elizabeth 1st era. Even when they discussed American slavery, the crux was ‘we ended it, aren’t we great?!, apartheid in South Africa, ‘the English white people were nicer than the Dutch as we let the black servants into the house’. Zero contextual or world history. Look at the carry on in the run up to Novembers Poppy Day. WW1 was supposed to make us free but look what happens when anyone on tv doesn’t wear a poppy full time from Oct 1st.

All of this has created a strange jingoism which has meant a great deal of the population believe the UK is exceptional. This has stifled innovation and ultimately led to self harm with Brexit as many believe the UK is the best, can go it alone in the world and can be ‘world beating’ in all areas.

WW1/2 happened. Let’s learn the lessons from it but stop obsessions and triumphalising over it. It’s time for the UK to grow up and recognise its true place in the world today, then maybe we can unlock our true potential.

Great post @Crapsummer2023 .

The obsession with those 2 wars and the way in which they are remembered and taught i.e ‘We won, we’re the best!’ Has been damaging.

If you speak to the people who were actually involved in it you don’t get any of that. In the mid 1960s I remember asking my father who won the war. His response has stuck with me ever since…

“Nobody wins a war”

@givemeasunnyday It's nothing to do with those wars as 'world wars'. Try thinking about more critically about the question. It's been explained in other posts.

Yes but the OP said parents or grandparents, so by that logic your kids are still the first generation not to have that. Just as I don't.

Because I've answered the same question 3 times now. People keep asking the same thing, like they can't believe I don't know anyone from WW2 just because they do....

Your questions was "I wonder what marks those wars as uniquely different to the others?"

Maybe do a bit of critical thinking yourself.

I think Hitler and the holocaust/concentration camps will still be taught about in schools for years to come. I'm 30 and did it basically every year in RE at secondary school, and it's what I mostly associate ww2 with.
Ashamed to say I don't really know anything about ww1.

@givemeasunnyday It's okay if you don't understand it, another poster also said 'bCoz ThEy W0z WoRlD wArZ!! Thë ClŪe Iz iN tHę nAmE!!!'

Same I'm 39 both sets of grandparents were to young to be involved in ww2, one of my great grandads were building ships on the Clyde and I have no ideas what the rest of them did.

We have a lot of past family members who were in the military, on both sides, so it's always been quite a focus with our children. My grandparents were both active in WWII, and 4 of my children knew my Nan, only my little one didn't meet her. My 10yr old's special interest is the military, war, weaponry etc. so it's a focus of his education (home ed), and my husband served for 26 years, so for us, it's not something that will be forgotten easily. However, that's just an individual story, generally children being born now won't have that direct connection and it will be 'my ancestors from long, long ago fought in a war'.

My two grandfathers were late teens/early 20s during WW2. One was medically unfit as a severe asthmatic, but in the latter part of the war he went up to Hull as a scientist to design submarines. The other spent the war sailing in ships round the eastern med, and never saw a scrap of action. He looked back on it as a jolly adventure with his mates.
At least one great grandfather fought in the trenches at the Somme, saw a lot of action and got a medal for bravery. He also witnessed his older brother shot and killed by the enemy. I just about remember meeting him as a very young child, and now have his medals.

As for kids now not knowing anyone from either war, surely that's a good thing?

My kids do have that. Their kids will be the first generation not to.

Yes but my point in my previous post is taking into account average ages since the 40s for becoming a mother that actually the current generation are more likely to not have that connection, rather than the generation being born now.

Average childbearing ages in the 60s was 23, in the 80s it was 25 so a huge proportion of the population at 20-35 years old will have grandparents born after WW2.

Don’t worry, I don’t either. My grandparents did - they were born in the early 1920’s. But it was never a topic of conversation. My parents were true boomers, born 2 or 3 years after the end of WW2. They had no reason to talk about it. I had a normal middle class upbringing, as did they. We have no friends / friends relatives who were in the war, or if they were again it’s not a topic of conversation. So from my perspective the norm is not not to know any one, and it’s unusual if you do. I would think that was the case for anyone under 60.

Let’s be honest, remembrance day has become a bigger and bigger thing as time has past, for some reason. It doesn’t even register in my early memories. The first time I think I it did was once I’d started work and was commuting by train into London. So early 90’s. It’s definitely grown since then, but I couldn’t tell you the date. September 11th is imprinted on my mind - we were living abroad at the time. But WW1/2? Long forgotten. Unless perhaps you have friends/family in the military. Then I can see that it might have been a larger part of your life than society in general.

Agree with both of you.

The sense of English exceptionalism seems to be bolstered by them focusing intently on WWII. It was of course the country's last experience of "total war" ie war that involved more people than the existing professional armed forces.

It's also the last war that England has been involved in that isn't politically or socially questionable. And the war that is adjacent to the decline of the British empire. I think those are the key reasons for the huge focus on it - because what's happened since is less straightforward and perhaps more difficult to deal with.

Although despite the attention on it as an identity defining event, people still do not see it clearly - for example, little of the popular narrative about WWII acknowledges that the conflict ended because Russia held the Eastern Front and because the USA dropped two atomic bombs on civilian populations - the first and last country to do so. Nothing to do with bunting, or keep calm and carry on, or spirit of the blitz, or god bless you ma'am, although to hear an English person talk about it you would think that these things were what defeated fascism.

Crapsummer2023

Very well said!