National service isn't the answer. AIBU?

[D3LAN3Y]

The conversation keeps cropping up time and time again. Should national service make a come back?
I have some relatives (generally older) who seem to think the younger generation could really use something like National Service to "sort themselves out" because they seem to think too many are rude/work shy/lazy/disrespectful etc.
I think it's a load of shit. I have two kids. Most of the teenagers I know happen to be good kids. I don't think they are a lost generation and anyone who works in retail already have done a form of national service in my eyes.

The tories have tabled an idea of a voluntary idea of national service but surely if they are pushing the idea to sort out "troubled youth" it wouldn't hit the audience it intended?

YABU - National service would help
YANBU - ITS A JOKE.

www.lbc.co.uk/news/penny-mordaunt-national-service/

As someone up post said there are plenty of rude, entitled pita older people too.
They can be total arseholes and play the age card, but thinking about it they've probably always been arseholes. I'm old enough to be dm to many posters on here so it's hardly ageist for me to say this. Not that I care anyway.

You want to "sort out" younger generations start by investing properly in education, reopening non-degree pathways and do away with dead end 0 hours jobs.
You want young people to be productive participants in society, give them the tools to do so!

“anyone who works in retail already have done a form of national service”

FFS

I know a couple of students who have done the National Citizen Service. I have a feeling that the ones who would opt out are the ones causing trouble so I don't see opt out/opt in as the solution at all. In Iceland, over 14's are paid proper wages to do socially valuable jobs like litter picking, caring for gardens, doing jobs for older adults, all co-ordinated by the national organization, which seems to me a good solution, they get to earn a bit of money in a socially responsible way. Asking people to volunteer to do a thing that used to be compulsory and many hated is not going to work in this day and age, those that can avoid it will.

They wouldn’t last five mins, certainly we won’t be winning any wars. YANBU 😂

Any future war in this country will be nuclear anyway. Noone is going to go into that lightly.

@Insommmmnia yes I read the very similar thread that was on here a week or so so ago.
All these threads end up with the same thing being said - "Instead of Military like the old days they should get teens to...." and then goes on to describe schemes like NCS or Duke of Edinburgh or Scouts/Guides etc. Schemes and opportunities that already exist.

I don't think being conscripted into the armed forces is the answer. It requires a person with the passion, determination & belief in defending King & country. We need members of the armed forces who we can depend on in times of conflict & disaster, not someone who has a half hearted attitude to military life. It also costs a lot to put someone through military training, so we need recruits who will put everything into it because they want to as opposed to someone who will do the bare minimum & leave at the first opportunity.

The conversation keeps cropping up time and time again. Should national service make a come back?

No it doesn't. I haven't heard this conversation in years. Anyway National Service was ended because the Services didn't want it. "The Army has better things to do that try to teach unwilling young people in 18 months what society hasn't taught them in 18 years." Field Marshal Lord Slim.

I suspect you're a hack desperate for a story OP.

YANBU. I did a lot of volunteering as a teenager because I was trying to build up my confidence as I was very anxious. If it had been coerced or compelled, or I hadn't had a choice in what to do, I'd have refused to take part. Not all teenagers are the same, either - I got a lot out of doing errands and household chores for very elderly people (and chatting to them!) but I'd have hated outdoor/sporty/residential activities with other teenagers.

Volunteering is great. I definitely think volunteering schemes should be advertised more - but not expected or required of young people, or anyone else.

Compulsory military service is a ridiculous idea.

I suspect you're a hack desperate for a story OP.

I assure you I'm a boring mum of two, recovering from an aneurysm. Definitely not desperate for anything other than peace of mind and to change the mind set of some of my family who seem hell bent on accusing all teenagers of being "rough" or "lost" (including my 13 Yr old DD because she prefers to play on her ipad instead of joining a military style cadets like me and her father once did).

Very conflicted about this idea as my town (reasonably affluent South Coast Uni town) is seeing an uptick in unruly teenage behaviour and large groups hanging around wearing dark trackies and face masks and being confrontational for no obvious reason.

I think part of the problem is the apparently well meaning attempts to give children autonomy and respect that has encouraged a bit of infantilisation of mid and older teens, and a feeling that consequences for anti-social behaviour are mild enough to run the risk. Or run ins with perceived “authority” are regarded as a badge of honour.

I think a lot of the problem is the reduction in youth supporting services by councils, so lack of youth clubs / community centres etc.

I think that any form of military based service would simply be unworkable, but perhaps organising outreach programmes to encourage things like participation in things like D of E etc might be a start particularly if it could be encouraged by kids from similar backgrounds who have done it and can point out the advantages in a language they all understand.

However, the teenage years are a time of experimenting, “finding oneself” etc and bucking against the established order, and the proliferation of online fodder for the disenfranchised is a big fly in the ointment as messages are confused and usually designed to make money out of kids and parents who don’t want their child to feel alienated or deprived.

It’s a pretty pickle in todays world and I don’t envy people with teenagers these days. My son is 29 and his teenage years were enough of a rollercoaster back then - hearing some of the issues that my friends are dealing with in regard to their confused and troubled teens makes me very sad.

You can’t shape a generation by one set of standards and suddenly expect them to snap into adult mode overnight. While every generation has been considered worse in terms of behaviour etc since time immemorial, previously we weren’t all plugged into rapidly evolving technology that can dictate a new zeitgeist on what seems to be a weekly basis.

I don’t know what the answer is, but National Service ain’t it.

YANBU. I think it’s beyond fucked up and would not be joining on principle.

If someone believes in a cause and actively goes out of their way to join, fab, crack on, we thank them for their service.

But someone being forced to join and represent something they don’t align with and didn’t choose? Hahahaha, no, absolutely fucking not.

There aren’t many people left alive who did compulsory National Service-they’d have to be over about 83!

It pisses me off when ranty people who weren’t forced to do it, decide that other people’s should have to because they are young!

Still the best tv on national service

Sort of joking here- i think everybody should have to work 3 months in some sort of customer service role. 🤣

Mr Gr-Uncle did national service and is still alive, it did broaden his horizons but he did nearly die at one point.

Don’t work in a school do you?

In some countries it's a year where you can choose between various options, many of them community or social type options. So you might end up doing street cleaning or elderly care. I don't think that's actually a bad thing, and wouldn't mind doing it myself either, depending on how it's set up.

I don't think anybody should be forced into armed forces. Absolutely not.

I think you are being unreasonable for portraying the Tory thing as "National Service" when it's more NCS-lite - two weeks (maybe four) of worthy activities.

I think their idea is crap, and would rather effort was put into publicising and encouraging participation in NCS.

But think it's wrong to draw a false comparison to the older military version

Judging by some of the rough young lads where I live, something compulsory, structured and productive would be a good thing. I don't believe in forced military service but a lot of the of them would probably be happier if they weren't just doing drugs, getting drunk every night and getting into trouble with the police.

No. Invest the money in training the teens that slipped through the net. Build their skills, feeling of self-worth and esteem and ensure they develop into decent, tax paying citizens. Leave the ones that are set up alone to get on with their lives.

@Needmorelego you're shouting into a void here, as with every recent thread about the NCS scheme which already exists and is nothing to do with uniforms.

They aren't hearing you. Too frothing at the mouth about how awful old people are.

I wrote my dissertation on National (military) Service, and one of my students is currently volunteering in Peru on the international wing of the NCS scheme.