Why do they always say staff need more training when people (mostly kids) die from sepsis?

[HangerLaneGyratorySystem]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-bristol-66752180

Surely doctors and nurses etc should be thinking of sepsis at all times?! This excuse is so often trotted out:

Exactly this. Your disdain for HCAs in your first comment was obvious. I actually saw this thread and wondered how long it would take for HCAs to be scapegoated, despite there being no mention of them whatsoever involved in Maddy or Martha's care. Not long at all! Do you really think you could do your job without HCAs? Do you think the NHS would be able to continue without being propped up by support staff earning little more than minimum wage? If you don't like it then insist that the nurses do all of the OBs, I'm sure that the HCAs will be thrilled, as currently their workload is unsustainable.

the general public needs more education about Sepsis so we have the confidence to shout doctors and nurses down in the hospital. In my experience doctors (and nurses) will investigate anything if you kick up enough fuss

Personally I don't think HCAs should be left to do obs, not because they aren't capable, but because for something largely routine and often mundane it is actually quite a lot of responsibility; they shouldn't have the burden of it. As with lots of other tasks the shortages have meant duties have flowed down which is unacceptable. Again, not as HCAs are not capable, but because their pay and training doesn't reflect it. Aside from simply noting down the obs there are other things you pick up and know to look for, the lack of continuity ie everyone being so overstretched you don't always see the same patient periodically through the shift also has a negative effect, subtle deterioration even if the obs are within range for example. The issue across the board is a lack of staff, a lack of qualified staff, and duties that need to be done being cascaded because there's physically not time which affects everyone.

The official cause of death for my 3 year old daughter was Sepsis due to an overwhelming Strep A bacterial pneumonia, like others on here, I will never get over losing her. What still upsets me to this day is that the nurses were paging all available consultants (it was 3am in the morning) to assist them on the children's ward and I overheard one consultant over the speaker phone reply to the nurse who stated "we have a 3 year old crashing," " I'm not the on call dr." Sadly too many people are being missed, symptoms are being dismissed or mistaken for other illnesses, I know my daughters symptoms were hiding till it was too late. People should not be dying in such numbers considering the amount of publicity and training given.

Again.

I very clearly said 90% of HCAs i have worked with are amazing and undervalued for the role they do in the hospital. But some are not. Ive worked in my dept long enough to know which few, a small minority, i wouldnt ask to do obs having seen them document incorrectly. But they are untrained, and if something were to happen to a patient in my care and obs were not correctly recorded, its my PIN on the line, not theirs. If someone is clinically unstable i would not ask - and nor should a HCA be responsible for doing those observations.

I also was a HCA, for over a decade, prior to my nursing, in an acute hospital setting, and for the vast majority of my time as an HCA, observations were not part of that role. I took on that role in my latter years, alongside many others that should really be a nursing job due to changes in roles in the whole hospital setting and nurses no longer having time to d it all themselves. I believe they still shouldnt be part of that role unless they have been trained and are in a band 3 or 4 position and have the title of CSW or NA or the old AP's. Same as i dont agree with HCA's at band 2 doing venepuncture, categorising pressure sores and simple dressings, doing ECGs etc etc. As a band 2 if you are being asked to preform these, i firmly believe you should be questioning your banding, receiving some formal training through your trust, and being paid accordingly with the responsibility that is being placed on you.

I have nothing against HCA's at all. The vast majority i have worked with and alongside are worth their weight in gold and a hospital would not function without them.

i would also like to add, that untrained, or unqualified, isnt a derogatory term. We are "the nursing team" and we differentiate staffing by saying X trained/qualified, Z untrained/unqualified when reporting our staffing to flow on shift. Its a terminology i use as second nature and it was not intended to offend.

its our local hospital and sadly only today was hearing about the lack of appropriate action when someone was having a heart attack on a ward. Anywhere where there are issues with staffing you are always going to have problems with staff carrying out the right procedures, solely because you are more likely to have junior or poorly trained staff on duty….most of us learn as much once we are in clinical practise, from older experienced colleagues, as we do in uni.

I'm sorry if my comment seemed terse, but I've witnessed frankly, spiteful behaviour displayed towards HCAs by nurses over the years. The NHS has a massive skills shortage, including an over reliance on nurse practitioners and physicians associates, but what is the solution? All I know is that a more united front and better teamwork would be a good start. I've seen some amazing HCAs who would make brilliant nurses, choose other more lucrative careers with far less aggravation and bullying. It is hardly encouraging people to work in the NHS is it.

I am so sorry.

Oh I am so sorry,

I carry a card and every single time I've been in, I tell them I'm at risk of neutropenic sepsis
It really doesn't help when I get quizzed on why I'm neutropenic and why I have autoimmune neutropenia