To wonder what’s happened to my lovely daughter.

[CameronS]

My daughter is nearly 10 years old and Im feeling really down about her behaviour and was hoping for some advice.

She was the kindest, warmest and most affectionate little toddler and infant, however as the years have passed, we see less and less of this. I know some of this will be age appropriate, but at times, I feel like she has lost so many of her lovely qualities. I feel awful writing that 😢

She has a younger sister who is 7 and she is just always causing problems for her, bossing her around etc. Her younger sister will try to give her a hug and she’ll push her away. She’ll try to sit with her at dinner and she’ll complain and say she doesn’t want to. She will hug DH and I but will not show any affection or even kindness towards her little sister. DD2 feels rejected and unwanted, which I then have to overcompensate for in order to protect her feelings. Then DD1 feels like I’m giving more attention to DD2 and gets upset.

She literally never puts anything away. For example, she’ll just drop wrappers on the floor wherever she is, rather than put them in the bin. Will leave her clothes on the floor wherever she takes them off. Wears dirty shoes all through the house despite her knowing to take them off at the door. I’ve tried the reminding her politely and I’m just so fed up of having to chase her up for all these things. It’s not just occasional, it’s literally everything. I have to ask her repeatedly and it’s wearing me down.

She doesn’t listen to me. For instance, the other day she asked me to take her to the trampoline park. I explained we couldn’t go because the car was in the garage. She just kept going on and on about it, despite being a smart girl and understanding that there’s no physical way we can get there. Begging me to take her despite knowing I can’t. It’s as if she’s just trying to wind me up.

She never uses manners. I have to remind her every time. She interrupts me every time Im speaking to other adults and will keep going despite me telling her to wait as I’m mid conversation. She’ll tug my arm to physically get my attention and say “mummy, mummy, mummy” on repeat. It’s embarrassing at her age. Particularly because she definitely knows how to behave and is choosing to act this way. Also, I’ve taught her to wait her turn and if she’s been waiting a while and hasn’t had a chance to speak, to say excuse me.

I absolutely love her to pieces and tell her so every day. I spend lots of time with her. Read with her, cuddle her, play board games, watch movies and go for lots of fun trips out, but her behaviour is just declining and has been for about the last 2 years and I’ve tried the approach of just being as nurturing as I can but it’s not working.

i have recently started giving my kids a little treat on a Friday for good behaviour. I have been unable to give DD1 anything so far as her behaviour hasn’t been good enough. I don’t expect perfect, but I do expect her to make an effort to some degree. Today will be the 2nd week I’ll have to give her little sister something and not her. I don’t know if this is the wrong approach? I have been desperately looking for any good behaviour to praise her for this week but it’s hard to find things.

she complains about everything, from her hair not looking exactly how she wants it to (when I try to do the style she’s asked for - and am actually pretty good with hair), to what her school snack is.

im just running out of ideas and feel like a bad parent. 😢 How can I be a better mum for her and teach her to be the kinder, more grateful and caring girl that I know she can be?

Thanks.

Little sister needs to learn to respect big sister’s boundaries. Big sister doesn’t want to hug her and that’s fine, she doesn’t have to. She doesn’t want to sit next to her either. But little sister is insisting on it. It could be that she’s sweet, loving etc or it could be that she’s realised that she can push big sister’s buttons and she will come out of it smelling of roses and getting extra attention and treats. Meanwhile big sister is learning that her autonomy doesn’t matter and is acting out. I was the little sister and believe me, little sisters can be little shits. I absolutely knew how to quietly rile my brother up until he lost his temper and then would sit there with my lip wobbling.

I’d definitely drop the reward thing as that is going to make her feel unloved against her sister and add fuel to that fire. My DD similar age can be the same with her brothers, tbh I really support her right to choose who touches her so I will very much stand up for her if she doesn’t want a hug but at the same time it’s not ok to be mean.

I think when you’ve got a child who has always been very well behaved but is starting to do rude things eg interrupting, not clearing up, just go back to basics. It’s so tempting to get angry with them because you know they know how to behave… but IME getting angry almost always ends up making things worse. So with the interrupting, at a quiet time have a chat about it, remind her of the rules around interrupting and you could have a little signal for each other (eg she squeezes your hand if she needs to chat, you squeeze her hand back to show you know) - it’s kind of going back to toddler teachings but it just takes all the angst out of it.

The ‘how to talk’ books are really good for all this stuff and I think there’s a teen specific one which might be the one you want.

You're doing an awful lot of comparing the two of them..a huge amount of expectations..
She was 3 (?) when younger sister came along, I think that's a hard age gap and might be the root of a lot of this..
She doesn't know how to be any different, she isn't choosing to be bad, there's a reason behind it, I bet she doesn't want to really act this way but it's such a jumble inside her she's doing it anyway.. Try tease out the root causes and stop with the pressure, comparing and Friday treats..

If its any comfort OP I behaved very much like this towards my younger sister (three years difference in age). I was foul to her as a tween/teen and we had a guarded relationship until I was in my mid 20s. We’re now extremely close.

You can’t do much about this. Siblings are not automatically friends and you can’t force it if it’s not there. But they will have a bond which will be there for life. All you can do is insist on respect and enforce boundaries with love. The rest is up to them.

I think a lot of the advice here is excellent and I usually hate all the 'are they neurodivergent' but a few things are jumping out at me that are similar to my son. Just something to consider.

How strict are you with her?
Reminding her politely when she drops litter?? I think at that age I would be polite once or twice and then I would be significantly less polite, especially with the interrupting and the not listening and the repeated nagging.

Not saying I would lose my shit, but I would definitely be loud strict and clear and give a consequence. And probably let out a howl of anger and frustration.

I’ve got two daughters similar ages and same age gap (8 and 11). Very similar issues. Huge jealousy towards the younger sister. Lots of insecurity about her being better at stuff, having more friends, getting more love and attention from mummy and daddy. Has got much worse in last two years.
She (older child) had a lot of attachment anxiety as a baby and has always needed a parent to be there to go to sleep with. So I think arrival of younger daughter when nearly 3 really did rock her world and it’s only now she’s starting to be really sensitive and also articulate more vocally the way we treat them differently.
I do think I am unconsciously softer on the younger child, partly because she is better at understanding social rules and driving attention her way (both positively and negatively).
I am trying my best to be utterly utterly fair between them (no lighter treatment due to younger age, etc). And making a huge effort to acknowledge their different strengths and personalities so that they have space to be themselves without competition. Competition is healthy but constant comparison is not.
I would definitely agree with other posters that differential rewards for achieving good behaviour is a hiding to nothing. Reward little sister very discreetly, make a huge fuss over big sister. Celebrate the fact that she’s questioning you, many of us got brought up to be good girls that followed the rules and look where that got us!! But also. Encourage cooperative activities where they have fun working together for a common goal (but don’t force it) (there are some great cooperative board games around).
As an aside my eldest has just started secondary and I expect it to be a game changer for their relationship. As PP noted I’m detecting a more defensive note in her attitude to younger sibling - but early days yet and there are still a lot of insecurities for her to work through.

I'd drop the reward too if she's not doing the basic chores.

Take a black bin liner, pick up the clothes, shoes and wrappers she's dropped in it. Give it to her and get her to sort it out.

I'd sit her down and point out how many people there in the world worse off than her, and how lucky she is to have a roof over her head, food, clothes and shoes, and tell her to stop winging about them all. She's old enough for that.

Actually it is fairly common. There seems to be little regard for litter among this age group. And we have brought up an age group that expect to be heard, but it has gone a bit too far perhaps, as, with COVID, they have not developed the social skills or consideration that goes with group interaction.

My 9yo shows lots of these behaviours - dropping rubbish on the floor etc and it's a case of firm boundaries- like pp said - 'pick it up or you will not be getting a biscuit next time'. 'Take your shoes off or you will be cleaning up any mess'. I thought at this age I wouldn't need to say these things, but clearly I still do.

The difference is my child has been hard work from day 1 and she's loads easier than she was as a baby/ toddler, so it feels like we are ( slowly) heading in the right direction.

I have an almost 7yo and they get on really well and play together most of the time. There are times they can't stand the sight of each other and that is normally younger one annoying the older when she just wants some peace. As well as keeping the boundaries firm with 10yo, you need to explain to the 7yo to read the signs if someone doesn't want to play. I'd be making sure 7yo was getting chance to play with friends lots.

Also, is your 10yo really OK if this is a big change for her? If you could spend some 1:1 time with her and do something fun, you might see the best of her again.

She will come back, I think that the teen years start around now and my DD was nice again by 16 😆. Drop the treat thing and keep up discipline , zero tolerance on picking up after herself and helping. Sit down with her and tell her your guidelines (and why, I'm tired all week from working so need you to help) then ask her what treat would be, more of activity, film night or whatever, but don't hold it over her.
I think at school they are top dogs , it will change when they go into y7. Talk that through as well

Post deleted as I didn't realise this was an old thread.

Zombie thread

Not read full thread. Reward systems can back fire unfortunately (re: the Friday treat thing that she is not getting). What we found with my boys was that focussing on the bad behaviour (like reinforcing that their behaviour has failed, as they get no treat) doesn’t work and just makes them more angry and resentful, and less willing to engage. So we tried a different approach - it may or may not work for others. To encourage them to change their behaviour, we started to talk positively to them, and try to do this at least 5 times a day. So, something like ‘I’ve been so impressed about how thoughtful you were yesterday when you did x’, or ‘you are really good at y’, or ‘I’ve noticed a few days ago that you said something really nice to your sibling’, or ‘well done for putting z back in the right place, that’s brilliant’… Sometimes it feels really hard to do this, or to think of things that you can praise, but we found with our boys that it really did quite quickly reset things, so it was all less of a battle. The other thing I did was to get the sibling on board as well, and said to them that their sibling was having a tough time at the moment, and that it would really help if they could say 5 nice things to them each day (but that this was a secret, and not to tell them that this was what they were doing). So the sibling would be encouraged to say things like ‘I really like playing Minecraft with you’ or ‘this drawing is brilliant’ or ‘thanks for helping me with x’, or ‘I really liked going to the park with you yesterday’. And to remind the sibling, I would discretely hold my five fingers up (out of sight of the other one). I have to say, it was a bit unconventional, but it really helped. And because you are verbally mentioning good things each day, then that makes you able to award them the treat on a Friday, as you can ignore the misdemeanours in favour of the ‘good behaviour’, and it all starts to reinforce itself. We also found that 1-1 days (with a parent) really help, where the child chooses the activity / location, and chooses where to go for lunch, and then chooses a treat at the gift shop at the end of the day, one for them and one for the sibling. This really helps the siblings get a better relationship, being brought a specially chosen gift from their sibling. It worked for us - they are now older teens and get on really well. Good luck

ps - I wonder if hormones are changing, or whether sleeping is becoming difficult, or whether there is anxiety about SATs / transition to secondary school, all of these things could be having an impact..

Forget this Friday “treat for good behaviour” business. You are setting DD1 up to fail and then sending a clear message to her that he sister is “good enough” but she isn’t.

Speak to DD2 on her own. Explain to her that we don’t hug people who don’t want to be hugged, or try and sit beside them, and that she needs to respect personal space.

Then spend some time with DD1 on her own and apologise for trying to force the relationship and acknowledge that little sisters can be annoying and that she probably feels compared and you know that isn’t fair and will stop it. Then stop it.

She literally never puts anything away. For example, she’ll just drop wrappers on the floor wherever she is, rather than put them in the bin. Will leave her clothes on the floor wherever she takes them off. Wears dirty shoes all through the house despite her knowing to take them off at the door. and what have the consequences for this behaviour been up until the very recent withholding of treats, because it sounds like there's not much discipline?

I really wouldn't pitch them against each other with the giving or withholding of treats. It will make your eldest feel even more negatively towards her little sister and little sister will feel more guilt about being favoured. Deal with the behaviour of the eldest at the time she misbehaves and discipline there and then rather than store up misdemeanors to discuss at a later time.

It's tough I know. My DDs had a similar dynamic when they were small. I've just remembered one holiday from hell - I literally imposed a 2 metre no go zone between them at one point. They're adults now and get on really well. Youngest is an amazing auntie to eldest's DC, so things will hopefully improve between them.

Have a look at the Solihull Behavior Management approach - so much good stuff about understanding tween/teen brain development and what it does to behavior and how to deal with it.

Also their general consensus is that children who turn into "horrible" teens come back to you as their lovely selves afterwards.

I did the training at work and really rated it.

At that age, puberty hormones are possibly starting to kick in. I personally think the tween years are worse than the teenaged years for a girl.

Sorry, just seen this is a ZOMBIE THREAD!!