Disabled DD and fire evacuation.

[Blueyhasstolenmylife]

This is not a dig at the protocol and I do understand why but

DD has moved in to a classroom upstairs now which requires you to go through 2 classrooms and 2 flights of stairs to get to playground.
she has multiple health conditions but can walk however uses a wheelchair when unwell or long distances. She is much slower than her peers. Just like any other place the fire safety protocol means that she is unable to be evacuated until last - then obviously takes her longer to get out after everyone else but she is not allowed to start evacuating until all others are out. I get the protocol I do and I can see it from everyone else prospective just am I being unreasonable that’s it’s another thing I read that reminds me how much more disadvantaged in every day life she is.
I think it’s just more of a rant than anything :(

that is awful. I would not be happy

Is that normal?? It's signalling that her life is less important. I have no idea about this one!

@Summerslimtime yeh it is normal in most buildings. It’s just another thing that I don’t think most people think about.

I would ask to see the risk assessment and the PEEP. Our disability policy is we have a 2 stage warning, stage 1 is get ready (intermittent alarm, then stage 2 continuous. People with disabilities leave on stage 1 regardless as to if it moves to stage 2 or not, able bodied leave on stage 2

Are there no classrooms on the ground floor?

At my school, those with mobility issues are evacuated last, because the designated members of staff assigned to each class sign students with mobility issues have to get there to assist safely. The teacher obviously waits with the student until they arrive (always 2 people)

That said, we have ground floor classrooms as well, and all classes with students with mobility issues are always on the ground floor.

She should have a Personal Evacuation Plan which should consider, among other things, whether there is a safe place she could go to instead of evacuating - for example, an equipment storage area with fireproof doors.

I have emailed to request a PEEP and also why there is no evac chairs available if disabled students have to be upstairs.
I know it’s unlikely to ever happen but my heart can’t care knowing 🙈

I don’t necessarily agree. We have the same where I work now in an office tower. Anyone with disability involving speed etc goes last, otherwise you potentially have someone holding up people and it’s a numbers game unfortunately. Then there’s the next group who are able to slowly make their way out after others to ensure they are not holding up others in stairwells. Then the last group who can’t manage the stairwell at all, and given the lift can’t be used in event of fire, have to wait and hope the firies can get up to them and carry them out before they burn to death or die of smoke inhalation. Myself and one of my kids would be in both of the last two groups. That’s life, it’s nothing personal, it’s about saving the majority if that’s truly the scenario.

@HoppingPavlova I did state I “ get it “

That doesn't sound a great fire evacuation route. My daughter is in p1 so currently downstairs but we've been told if stairs are difficult when she moves up, they can rearrange the classes to keep her on the ground floor. I know this isn't ideal but may still be the lesser of evils.

Oh bless you. You never stop worrying ❤️ even when you know logically they'll be well looked after.
Good idea to ask for what they've got in writing. There should definitely be an evac chair.

That should not be normal. There should be evac chairs at the top of the stairs that slide down the stairs, therefore they can leave at the same time

I would be challenging

It's not just about going last, that's not the issue (and it should be as immediately following everyone else as possible, not "and wait a while"), it's about the fact this school doesn't seem to have the basic equipment or trained persons they need to get the child out in an emergency.

The law:
Where an employer or a service provider does not make provision for the safe evacuation of disabled people from its premises, this may be viewed as discrimination. It may also constitute a failure to comply with the requirements of the fire safety legislation mentioned above.

Not having basic equipment and people trained in it is very likely to mean they haven't made proper provision and they need to sort this asap or the building isn't meeting basic fire safety for your daughter to be in.

Source: https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/fire-safety-risk-assessment-means-of-escape-for-disabled-people/fire-safety-risk-assessment-means-of-escape-for-disabled-people-accessible-version

OP I really sympathise with you on this one, I remember the blind panic I was in when I started a new job on the sixth floor of an office and the fire alarm went off, everyone left and I was trapped. They hadn't done a PEEP. I was only stuck for a few minutes before a fire marshal came to check the floor was clear, found out I couldn't get out, and shouted down to the person trained in doing the evac-chair (who thankfully wasn't far down the stairs) and they got me out but I still have nightmares about that day because I was in a fatal fire many years earlier.

I don't think people stop to think of the psychological impact of believing you're trapped in a burning building and thinking no one is coming to help you. And knowing that next time you go upstairs in a building the same might happen. The school need to get organised on this.

I'd expect her to be held in an area protected with at least 30min fire doors and have an evac chair and 2 staff assigned to get her out once the stairwell is cleared or if a close fire, first to notify emergency services of her presence and whereabouts. It's impossible to use an evac chair on a busy stairwell and dangerous to allow a person with mobility issues to be caught in the unpredictable nature of an emergency evacuation using stairs. However there should be a PEEP in place to ensure her safety until she can be safely evacuated.

That should not be normal. There should be evac chairs at the top of the stairs that slide down the stairs, therefore they can leave at the same time

No, as that will limit volume of others down the stairs. So for example you may get 20 people out in 90 sec or 12 plus 1 in an exact chair. Again, it’s a numbers game, you have to scenario plan for max numbers out quickly, nothing personal and has zero to do with personal worth as someone else claimed.

You do know that in hospitals not everyone will be evac’d right? I did those drills for umpteen years. There’s always a group that is going to put others at risk and they are left in situ and instruction given to firefighters as to how many and location (s). No one is allowed to stay with them. They are worth no less than anyone else, it’s just logistics. Obviously you try your best and their are a sub-set who, in certain situations may even be evac’d via helicopter from roof but that’s not possible in all scenarios and not every patient in a bed could be moved like this plus it’s also limited to scenario/time/number of choppers.

In drills at school, my child at the time, who may/may not have needed assistance depending h on how they were travelling at the time, but still would have been slower, went last. Funnily, if she had a male teacher they always generally scooped her up and carried her (very very slight) at the end of everyone else. In one situation in an actual emergency (turned out to be false alarm but they didn’t know, just knew not a drill), one female teacher did also but she was a large and strong person and no doubt the adrenaline kicked in. However, a typical size female likely would not have and I’m guessing if push came to shove, do to speak, and there were flames licking their arse, the average teacher would have no doubt left them in their wake. You sort of have to be okay with that on the realism scale.

Surely the logical.thing to.do.would be to.move the classrooms around so.she isn't upstairs ?
Her life is just AA important as anyone else's .

At present there is no evac chairs at all.

@HoppingPavlova i totally get it I do but you also can’t claim that if means their life is worth less

HoppingPavlova I don't think your posts are really helpful. We all know the realities of the situation for disabled people in an emergency.

I think that’s bloody awful. There must be a way of basing her downstairs?

It just seems it never really crossed their minds. The classroom situation is the lower ages are downstairs.

I'm sorry but all those people saying that's life are abysmal. Absolutely abysmal. This is someone's child. In a school. Where they should absolutely guarantee they can keep her as safe as everyone else. If this means making all her lessons on the ground floor then that should be the case. How dare they make her feel like an inconvenience or less of value than her peers at a delicate age in her life.
OP shout loudly- involve the press if they don't agree to a difference action plan. Its not about if its unlikely to happen its about making a teenage girl feel her life is valued.

Agree she should have a PEEP. Protocol os normally to move to a safe area (with strong fire doors etc, often at top of stairwell) and await rescue or follow on. A designated fire warden may stay behind. There may be an evac chair in this area but can only be used by trained staff.

Well.that's ridiculous its not written in stone that classrooms for younger age groups are down stairs ,why can they just move things around I would have thought it would come under reasonable adjustments ?