To say car ownership shouldn't be seen as the default

[Sidslaw]

several posts on here about financial problems, all claiming the car is "needed" and not up for discussion

People tend to set up their lives with the assumption that they will drive - surely with the climate in the stat it is in it should now be the other way around? People to set up their lives with the assumption that they will not drive, as the default.

I don't drive, I am dyspraxic, so can't and always knew I wouldn't, and it has never been an issue, as I have chosen the places I live and the jobs I do on that basis. I use public transport, walking, cycling, taxis. I have raised my family as a single mother like this, and my children ( not dyspraxic) have grown up to set up their lives the same.

There is always going to be people who rightly or wrongly think they are an exception, but surely the default should be, don't own a car, don't drive?

I've lived in 3 different places. Growing up I lived just outside a seaside resort. I used public transport as a child but learned to drive as soon as I turned 17 as public transport stopped at 7pm (this was 42 years ago).
I then moved 5 miles out of a city. Initially I worked in the city centre but was later transferred to an office 15 miles in the opposite direction. Whilst there was a bus, it was only hourly and stopped at so many villages it took 1 1/2 hrs to get to work. I tried using it when my car was stolen. I had to plead with the manager to finish work 10 minutes early otherwise I wouldn't have got home until nearly 8pm from a 5pm finish. I lasted a week and bought a new car on finance before the insurance company had settled the claim.
I then moved to a rural area. Buses are hourly but don't run after 6.30pm or at all on Sundays. We moved here as it was half way between my workplace and DHs new workplace. We couldn't survive without cars. We do use public transport when we can - mainly the train - but I've lost count of the number of times I've had to drive DH or DS to/from the major station 25 miles away as the connection is cancelled (driver shortage or other pathetic excuse that never seems to improve). Without our cars, we'd end up stranded.
DS (like both his parents) passed his driving test at 17 - although didn't immediately get a car of his own). All jobs he's had so far have required him to have a car to get to different offices.

So we can't set our lives up to operate without cars. It just wouldn't work.

AIBU to say that washing machines shouldn't be the default? We should all catch rainwater in water butts and use that to handwash clothes, then put them through the mangle like our grandparents. Washing machine production and transportation is terrible for the environment and uses up finite resources.

Ok, I'm being facetious but you see the point. Time is precious, society has changed, generations don't all live in the same house and families are spread out. People don't all work in or near the town they live in anymore, and often it just is not an option to. Supermarkets are more cost effective than shopping on the local high street, people don't have time to buy little and often, needing to do a big shop. Hospital services are centralised. Public transport is costly, often over used & unreliable. Many families have 2 adults working full time jobs. There are just so many differences in lifestyle from the times when car ownership was not the norm.

I think where people can go about their business without too much inconvenience without a car, they should. But I think do say non car ownership should be the norm is idealistic and modern society just is not geared up for many people to be entirely carless.

Even if he never gets a car he should learn to drive, it’s an important life skill, also there are so many jobs that require a ‘full clean driving license’ he could have limited work opportunities otherwise.

No, no, no! I love my car and it’s my freedom, I’m not giving that up easily I can tell you. I do walk to work though as it’s not far. I love the flexibility of a car rather than a 2hour trip on public transport to visit friends the other side of town. Judge away about me ruining the environment, I couldn’t give a fuck! If I suddenly become ill overnight being unable to drive will be least of my worries.

Where I live there's only one bus service connecting us to the two nearest big towns. Many of the places I go to are nowhere near the route, so having to catch two buses or walk part of the way would massively add to my journey time. It's just not doable.

That said, if I lived somewhere with a better transport network, or in/near a city, I might not even bother owning a car.

It's impossible for every home in the country to be within walking distance of food work education and hospitals etc the transport system is screwed up badly in my area you can't get a bus after 5pm there is no transport to hospital its a 45 minute drive 2 hours on several buses which run occasionally and again not after five school buses just got cancelled (funding crisis) too far via an unsafe route to walk council say we shouldn't send our children there which is great when they are in year 10/11 and all the closer schools are full and also on an unsafe walking route

Their suggested solution is parents don't go to work in the morning they DRIVE their children to school instead 🙄

I need my car

So everybody should leave rural areas entirely and live in cities?

YABU. I work for myself and couldn't do my own job if I didn't get out to visit people in their own home

@Sidslaw

So I assume that you buy NOTHING online?

You expect electricians, plumbers to arrive by bicycle or bus to mend a gas leak or burst pipe?

If you roof needs mending I presume you insist the scaffolder carries the scaffold poles through the streets?

You send your kids to schools whereby every teacher arrives by public transport and of course nobody lives outside a town or city as that would be selfiish and luxurious.

Everyone must live within public transport distance to their place of work - if their workplace goes bust or they are made redundant they must move house to be near to their next place of work. If this happens every year - tough.

If your child needs lots of hospital appoinments move ''NEARER TO THE HOSPITAL'' (hahahaaaa!). ERM - but won't that mean moving AWAY FROM YOUR CHILDS SCHOOL OR YOUR PLACE OF WORK?

We must all live close together and carry everything everywhere. Of course people a 150 years ago didn't drive - we had horses and carts. Are you suggesting we enslave millions of horses again to ferry us all around? BUSES AND TRAINS USE FUEL TOO YOU KNOW!!!!

You haven't thought this through OP. It's a load of balls.

I dont even live in a rural area its a large town transport has always been shit but I managed but then jobs left the area then the hospital was closed local schools closed I had children with illness I needed a car so I learned to drive

Would love to splash the OP driving through a puddle in my dirty great pick up truck. 😂

DS can't cope with public transport, can't cycle and relies on a sn buggy or wheelchair. A car enables him to get out to places he can cope with and gives him a quality of life. It also gets him to school an hour away. People who can use public transport, cycle and walk are lucky.

I have a car. I can still appreciate that on the whole, we should aim to drive less where possible.

Clearly, there are groups of people who cannot go without a car. If there is no public transport, disabled people, workmen. There you go.

Doesn't mean op is wrong. I will still own my car. I will also aim to drive less often.

If you're using a car, there's no difference between a car club and owning a car except a car club may be cheaper if you don't drive frequently.

Trains have typically 5 or 6 bicycle spaces. Clearly I'm not going to walk or cycle to sites 55, 85 and 240 miles away. It's really just not practical or realistic. It takes me 30 minutes to get to the rail station from my house, which is just lost time.

Fuck the environment 🤷🏻‍♀️

workmen

wow

That's the spirit. Your children must be thrilled.

Good for you. Doesn’t work for me.

Your complete lack of empathy for a family with a child needing frequent visits to a children’s hospital is staggering.

Sounds like you’ve been very lucky @Sidslaw. My village has a bus once a week- you can go to the nearest town on market day for 2.5 hours…..
i used to live in said town but was priced out of housing, so what was I meant to do?

i understand the point about the environment but you are living in cloud cuckoo land I’m afraid.

Bloody hell OP, what an embarrassment.

People tend to set up their lives with the assumption that they will drive

Yes - so to then get rid of the car would be a big adjustment, maybe moving house or job.

For medical reasons, DH has never been allowed to drive, so we have one car and live somewhere with good public transport, walking distance to his work etc. so I do agree that it's feasible. Our DD(4) is very good at walking because she's used to it.
But it's not feasible for everyone to do it, because there aren't enough areas with good public transport and facilities that you can get to.
The town my parents live in has one bus every half an hour and basically no jobs (there's a small high street with about 3 shops, a small primary school, and a pub, but nothing else), . Almost everyone who lives there and works needs a car. Yes you can argue that maybe they shouldn't have moved there, but then the whole town would be empty. Where would all these rural people go??

I used to live well without cars when I lived in a city in Europe and am fully dependent on my car now.

The difference?

In my European home city, trams ran every 6min. Buses ran the same route every 10min. Inner-city trains ran every 10-15min. And there were decent, well-maintained cycle routes everywhere, on both sides of the road, with well-made bicycles available at a reasonable cost. Public transport was cheap, ran in all weathers, maintained by a single company, and people were considerate.

In England?

In the city I used to live in, the best buses ran every 15min, but often were cancelled, so I could wait 30min for one and, on one memorable day, 2h due to the wrong kind of snowflakes. There were no trams or usable trains, and the cost of public transport was prohibitive if you needed to use more than one company. People used to listen to loud music, smoke cigarettes or weed openly despite the signs and I got a load of abuse when I politely asked, heavily pregnant, whether someone could put their weed out just for a few minutes until I got off the bus.

Cycle routes are non-existent, or, if they do exist, full of broken glass and potholes and suddenly end in the middle of nowhere. It's simply dangerous to cycle. Bicycles for sale often come without basics, such as splash guards, chain guards, a rack, lights (!) or a stand - add all of those on and you're looking at £400 at the cheapest end.

I now live in a very large town - close to 100,000 people. There is barely any work, certainly not much professional work, and still, property prices are rising like crazy. I couldn't afford to buy in a city, and increasingly I couldn't rent there, either. There is a bus every 15min where I live, every 1h in the part of town I used to live in. Walking into the town centre is possible and takes 1/2 hour if you're feeling sucidal - nothing I'd recommend for kids, but I have done the odd trip home.

Childcare is available from 7am (different part of town) and runs until 6pm; my job starts at 7.15am and finishes at 5.30pm if I'm lucky.

I live simply, my car is very old, my house has solar panels, I cycle and walk where I can unless I'm with my children. But my car is vital.

I agree that a lot of people could get by with fewer cars. My in laws have 2, at least in part because FIL won’t ride the tube. When we lived in London they were often on at us to get a car, I actually wanted to have one about 4 times a year and I could’ve taken a taxi and had it be WAY cheaper than running a car.

Now live in US, in a big city with medium public transport, we have one car (and do have DC) and 2 e-bikes. Bike infrastructure is WAY better here which helps (long time London cyclist, no one has tried to hit me here whereas bike commuting in London I had daily dangerous situations with cars!). We bike year round, unless there is snow on the ground. DC is 4 and loves riding on the bike with us and biking themselves.

We can't all live and work in urban areas. The world would fall apart if we did.