To say car ownership shouldn't be seen as the default

[Sidslaw]

several posts on here about financial problems, all claiming the car is "needed" and not up for discussion

People tend to set up their lives with the assumption that they will drive - surely with the climate in the stat it is in it should now be the other way around? People to set up their lives with the assumption that they will not drive, as the default.

I don't drive, I am dyspraxic, so can't and always knew I wouldn't, and it has never been an issue, as I have chosen the places I live and the jobs I do on that basis. I use public transport, walking, cycling, taxis. I have raised my family as a single mother like this, and my children ( not dyspraxic) have grown up to set up their lives the same.

There is always going to be people who rightly or wrongly think they are an exception, but surely the default should be, don't own a car, don't drive?

MN posters in response to this thread: 'I need my car to take my disabled child to hospital

OP: Sell your home, leave your family and community and move closer to the hospital.

MN poster: I don't feel safe travelling by bus late at night

OP: You're more likely to be killed by a car than assaulted on a bus.

MN poster: I live rurally and nowhere near a station. I can't get to work.

OP: Just get a new job.

🙄

Just waiting for all this data to be mined and turn up somewhere else

100% this!

Not driving is extremely life limiting. Living in the centre of a city would be hell for me, it's bad enough living in a town.

I couldn't have my job if i didn't drive, and i would have an utterly shit life if i didn't drive. i LOVE my life how it is and just about to buy my 4th vehicle to add to my collection.

My husband volunteers in a nearby town. I drive into that town one day a week for a class, I drop him off, he walks to the centre then he got the bus back. but guess what?the bus company have just changed the times so instead of being able to leave at 4.30 when the centre shuts at 4 he either has to get a bus at 3pm or at 6pm there are no other options. we have complained to the bus company. No shits are given there! so now its drive in and out or dont volunteer. we take trains to London and other big cities because we are old and the drive is harder for long journeys. so we do as much as we can. but I refuse to move into the town just so I can take buses everywhere. this is my home, my community.

I drive.

I don't own a car.

I definitely agree that in some circumstances that car ownership is pretty much essential. I've been there.

But it is entirely possible to both drive and not own a car - I hire a vehicle when I need one.

Just as with eating meat, an absolutist message is perhaps quite damaging. Cutting down on, rather than completely giving up, driving is a good start. It would also make car journeys easier for all those disabled people, children getting to hospital and community health workers that everyone's so worried about.

Agree. I'm somebody who cares about the environment, yet I have no plans to give up my car. The best things to do are have one car per household; walk or cycle or public transport where possible; smaller car etc.

It's the same with fashion for me. I don't have £60 to spend on a single sustainable item, so I buy secondhand. But if I buy from a high street store like Next, I don't buy stretchy polyester crap.

It's about balance. People get so defensive on topics like this because they thing people want to BAN clothes, cars, holidays etc

@Sidslaw sort out public transport and I’d agree with you!

Rural, semi rural and small towns used to be very well served by buses and trains, before the Thatcherite gospel of car ownership took over. It's entirely possible to have functional, useful and affordable public transport but people have refused to support it. If you're not prepared to make any kind of effort to change and can't be arsed to occasionally not use your car, then you're going to spend the rest of your life in traffic gridlock.

I’m a 10 minute walk from the centre of the decent-sized town where I live, and I only learnt to drive last year, because public transport here is so crap and I wanted to do more with the DC than just taking them to the same local playgrounds all the time. I just looked up the place we went to yesterday for an afternoon out… was a roughly 25 minute drive, according to Citymapper to get there on public transport would take around 2 hours. On a sweaty bus with a 3 year old and a toddler, followed by a long walk down country lanes with a double buggy, in a heatwave? No thanks.

Have you been on a UK bus lately? Groups of children (especially at school start and finish times) yelling, spitting, throwing things and making abusive comments. Kids throwing bricks etc at the bus, nearly causing an accident and sometimes breaking windows. Druggies and alcoholics who are clearly off their heads sitting on the bus beside you. Weirdos who try to talk to you. People pissing and vomiting. Admittedly not all the time, but often enough that I don’t want to get on a bus ever again. You know where I can sit safely surrounded by well behaved middle class people? In my car.

People are somewhat missing the point. It's not about stopping all car usage. It's about targeting the 71% of trips that are under 5 miles, and ensuring they are made by bike/foot/scooter/any other sustainable mode of transport. If you're a sheep farmer in rural Wales, this is not about you.

So do we consider things like making the LTN1/20 cycle infrastructure guidelines mandatory, so new developments MUST have high quality cycle infrastructure? Do we have a blanket reduction in the national speed limit, so more rural roads have a 40mph limit (or lower!) to encourage cycling? And why are we so upset about road traffic injuries and deaths, but make no effort to deal with ill health and deaths due to inactivity and obesity, where active travel can make a real difference?

And it's the poorest in society that benefit from this. If you can afford a car, you aren't the poorest, no matter how uncomfortable that makes you.

Travelled on buses all my life (school, work, socially, etc), mostly from a "rough" area in what is perceived as a "rough" city. I've travelled from early morning to late into the night and can count on one hand the number of times I've come across behaviour like you describe.

I was on a bus this morning. It was mostly filled with people, some looking very middle class in suits and nice office wear, commuting to work, with an occasional pensioner.

I have been on busses at school times, and not once have I seen anything like what you describe. I was recently on a late bus, and there was a solitary drunk man having an argument with a very feisty woman at the back of the bus.

Maybe you should move to a nicer area?

It's not bus users keeping our village up at night with their loud chavved up cars, that's for sure....

Many people go to work every day in order to not have to ride on busses.

I live in a village with two busses a day. Taxis are limited and expensive. I cycle where I can and walk often. However for us a car is a necessity not an option.

Our buses are very pleasant experiences and everybody routinely thanks the bus driver when we get off the bus.

sugarcoatt
My last 6 experiences of bus travel were this last weekend, travelling all over Bristol including some "rough" areas. Didn't have any problems whatsoever with any of our fellow passengers- in fact we bonded over some of the frankly insane behaviour of some of the other road users we witnessed (cutting up a double decker in a Honda Jazz/ multiple escooters/ an electric motorbike ridden on the wrong side of the road with no helmet 😱

No problems either on any of the Cornish, Austrian, Italian or London public buses I've taken this year.

I have, however, encountered multiple incidences of road rage, lack of consideration and sheer, stunning numptiness from my fellow drivers.

People are somewhat missing the point. It's not about stopping all car usage. It's about targeting the 71% of trips that are under 5 miles, and ensuring they are made by bike/foot/scooter/any other sustainable mode of transport.

That's a lovely ideal, but how do you propose it happens in reality? Especially in rural areas with no pavements or street lights, let alone bike lanes or bus services.

That’s not what Op is saying.

It’s not what the thread is about.

No one has denied that some people could reduce their usage.

@manontroppo

People are somewhat missing the point.

Yes. You.

What you go on to say is not what OP has said.

I do think car share schemes could offer a partial solution in cities.

I used to live in Vancouver which had a few schemes, each set up a little differently.

One scheme relied on you pre-booking cars in your neighbourhood (via an app) for the times you wanted to use them. You’d have to return the car to the designated are when you’re done with it.

The other didn’t require you to pre-book; you just checked on an app to see what cars were available nearby (usually several), then you could reserve one (meaning you had 30 mins to start your journey). You could then take the car for as long as you needed it. You could end your trip (by turning the car off with the keys inside it) anywhere within the city and didn’t have to worry about returning the car.

It wouldn’t have been cost effective for someone who used a car for their daily commute, but as someone who generally only wanted/needed to use a car a few times per week, it was really handy and affordable.

No one in my grandparents generation drove! They built their lives on the assumption of not driving.

I thought I was old! When was your grandparents generation? Cars have been around in one form of another for well over a hundred years.

My grandparents drove. My grandfather started driving in 1911.