Asking to be paid overtime in a 9-5?

[SleepyHollowed84]

AIBU to ask to be paid overtime in a 9-5?

I work a full time 9-5 in a role which requires a lot of unpaid overtime. Twice a week on average (sometimes more during busy periods) working 9-10pm for evening events. No TOIL, no late starts etc. Today worked 9-8pm. One week in June worked a 12 hour day every day of the week.

These are always events I am required to be at, as opposed to urgent time pressured work. I do not WFH, office based everyday. My contracted hours are 9-5 ‘with evening and weekend work when required’. There are about 7-8 other staff in a similar role who also do this.

Appreciate few people actually stringently stick to 9-5 but AIBU to put my foot down to be paid overtime, or at least TOIL? As evenings are in contract do I not have a leg to stand on?

Please help!

Honestly, I think it depends how senior you are. If you're in a senior role, then working additional hours is just something you have to grin and bear. Although I'd expect to be able to manage my own hours with flexibility and if I had to work the odd evening I'd have the odd early finish to balance things out.

If you're in a more junior role though, then I'd say overtime is definitely something you should be asking for.

If your on nmw. They would be breaking the law - still could be if in low wage role . Unless senior yes I would and be looking for another job

It depends on your contract/level of seniority. I'm fairly senior and don't get overtime or set TOIL, but I manage my own time. If I have to stay late one night by an hour and I might start late by half an hour the next two days or take longer lunches.

Is there a way that you can manage your own work hours like this?

Do not work unless you're getting paid. You are not a volunteer and it is not acceptable to expect you to work without getting paid for it or getting the time back to use another time of your choosing. This makes me so angry and so thankful that I am in a job with flexi time.

I hope your employer decides to do the right thing! Good luck.

Well, this depends on how well paid you are, bluntly.

Most bankers/lawyers have a 9-5.30 contract. Plenty will be there at midnight three nights a week. But the pay recognises this.

It depends on your job. In mine there was no overtime and no TOIL. I had to spend as much time as the job took to do it properly (you'll not be surprised when I say I was a teacher) so evenings and weekends were a given.

In other jobs, you absolutely should get paid extra or offered TOIL. Have you asked what your colleagues do with regard to evening events?

What is stated in the contract and what is the salary?

If the job requires you to work those hours regularly and not because of inefficiency then yes - you should be paid or be able to take TOIL.

I’m reasonably senior and take TOIL but informally. However my assistant is working an extra day a week this month (usually works 4) and I’ve told her upfront she can be paid or take TOIL - her choice.

Your company are taking the piss I think.

Contract states 9 - 5 with "extra" what's expected is within the contract.

I leave the minute I'm supposed to. If work can't get done in the time I have then they need to pay me for longer, and they don't so I go home. Yanbu that sounds awful. Definitely ask. That's so unfair on you. Why are you doing all of that? I assume you get paid A LOT anyway. As genuinely, if you (God forbid) got really sick tomorrow and had to quit they would replace you in no time at all and you'd never hear from them again.

The contract equires you work 9-5 ‘with evening and weekend work when required’. Unless it provides for overtime, then it would not seem you are not entitled to overtime. If it is not already contractually provided, if the company gives you OT, then presumably they will also have to start giving the 7-8 other employees in the same position.

Do they also work over and beyond like you do? I can imagine the company not wanting to create a precedent.

Again, as many posters intimated, how senior is your position? If it is senior, you would be agreeing an informal TOIL with your manager, not overtime, which is more for lower paid staff.

This is totally unacceptable. You cannot be MADE to work for no money. Insist on TOIL.
Speak to ACAS.

My contract is 9-530 with additional required
To flex to business needs.

I am a mn horror, high earner. It's just part of the job.

I'm assuming you work in events, also part of the job and as you progress you will earn more but in most salaried roles you have to put the grunt work in.

They do this themselves, not because they are made to. Earning >£1M a year is quite motivating.

Do you have contracted hours (eg 35 37.5) you are supposed to work. If you are regularly exceeding these and not allowed overtime or toil then maybe speak to ACAS. If you are a member of a union talk to them.

A union will not help with a dispute if it has already happened but I’m not sure whether this has or not.
Some insurance such as home or car includes legal advice on employment.

I also think you work in events or BD. In which case it comes with the territory. Informal TOIL is the way forward.

I have never been paid or asked for OT. I would have been laughed out of the room as the remuneration compensated for the intrusion into personal time, lack of flex and heavier responsibility.

What does contract say?

Is there a line or some extent that says 'and any reasonable hours to ensure job is completed'?

I mean- could you just stop at 5pm and say you'll continue it come morning or do bosses chase you?

Are you a teacher? This is really common for teachers and no OT/TOIL given. It isn't right but to do the job effectively it needs to be done. Are you in a union, can you speak with your colleagues and approach management with a joint proposal?

Working extra hours on occasion in your contract means that you can be required to work extra hours.
But that does not mean you do it for free, nor does it mean that they must pay you for those specific hours - it depends on your contract. Good practice would be to pay you, but it’s not the law to do so

https://www.gov.uk/overtime-your-rights

The 12 hour days for week in June exceeds 48 hours and therefore unless you explicitly signed that you forfeit your right to not have compulsory hours over 48 hours then that’s a problem (though it’s that you cannot be forced to work more than an average of 48 hours)

If your salary divided by hours ever drops below minimum wage then the law is being broken

Depends on a lot of things. When I was a trainee (accountant) we all were expected to clock up a lot of over time and we were already paid a pittance I wouldn't do it now though and would def say something

Should you be? Yes. Are most people? No.

I often 'work' events and trips etc and am never paid or given TOIL. Its just expected tbh.

It doesn't mean that the extra doesn't get paid though.