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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To not take this job opportunity further?

20 replies

ShadowPuppets · 05/09/2023 20:06

I currently work four days a week, in a job I love but it doesn’t really challenge me and there’s no career development opportunities. I have a 1yo and a 3yo and my day off with them is non negotiable to me. I’m not afraid of working hard - I’m in a small organisation and I’m the only person in my department - so tbh the 4 days thing doesn’t mean much as the work still needs to get done. I shoehorn it into evenings and nap times and as far as I’m concerned my 4 day pattern is just me ‘paying’ 20% of my salary for flexibility, which I don’t mind at all. I’m underpaid at FTE anyway, but I like my colleagues and it’s a job I can do fairly easily, so it works for me as a trade off. I am however a bit worried about career stagnation and getting too ‘comfy’ and regretting not making a move when I don’t have so many family demands.

I was approached by another company about a role which looks really good from a development and money perspective and I had a tentative chat with their HR. One thing that worried me was the job spec felt quite ‘aggressive’ for want of a better word and I raised that in the chat, they said it was more ‘ambitious’ and fair enough, I’m good and want to work with good people.

They told me I was a really good fit for what they were looking for. I told them I’d be very happy to go forward if a 4 day week was an option. They came back and said, to quote ‘sorry, but the line management team had advised this has to be a 5 day a week role.’ Ok, no drama, I’m not desperate to move and better to know this now than waste time.

A month has passed and I’ve just had a message from them to say that they’ve now changed their position and they’re open to part time applications. They’ve asked if I can go to a first round interview.

AIBU to think this is a bit iffy? I’m not against another conversation but they were so clear they wouldn’t consider a 4 day pattern before I’m worried that they’re just struggling to find someone and reckon they can get someone to agree four days and then backtrack. The money and career development would be a really good thing for me but I’m worried the initial ‘no’ to four days doesn’t bode well.

What would you do?

OP posts:
LadyAstor · 05/09/2023 20:14

I'd go back and ask how the role has been changed in order to accommodate fewer hours.

AndIKnewYouMeantIt · 05/09/2023 20:16

I think they'll want 5 days work in 4.

towriteyoumustlive · 05/09/2023 20:18

Go in and negotiate.

Companies are often willing to change their requirements to get someone that fits their role.

I'm guessing that their ideal candidate doesn't exist on a day week.

Original poster
ShadowPuppets · 05/09/2023 20:21

This is a good idea. I don’t want to say a straight no but I don’t feel wildly confident (tbh I feel a bit second best!) by the initial response. Seems like a good third way between going yes or no.

OP posts:
Original poster
ShadowPuppets · 05/09/2023 20:23

In terms of workload that’s not necessarily a problem for me as that’s what I’m basically doing but I have autonomy with it atm and I really don’t want to be expected to work when I’m out at playgroup or trying to stop two toddlers from trying to destroy the house!

OP posts:
BeeEyeEnGeeOh · 05/09/2023 20:23

Can you do compressed hours? I do 5 days in 4 and it works brilliantly, I do normal length days and then catch up in the evenings when I need to. It means I get paid for the work I do rather than having a 20% cut and still having the same workload!

Original poster
ShadowPuppets · 05/09/2023 20:23

Sorry, quotes didn’t work for some reason. First post to @LadyAstor, second to @AndIKnewYouMeantIt

OP posts:
Original poster
ShadowPuppets · 05/09/2023 20:25

towriteyoumustlive · 05/09/2023 20:18

Go in and negotiate.

Companies are often willing to change their requirements to get someone that fits their role.

I'm guessing that their ideal candidate doesn't exist on a day week.

@towriteyoumustlive if they’d been open to 4 days from the start I’d agree, it just doesn’t feel like much of a negotiation when they said an initial no and then are coming back saying ‘ok…’

OP posts:
Approaching · 05/09/2023 20:25

I’d apply, but be quite pushy about ensuring they guarantee the day off and reasonable workload. You should get a good feel from them as to whether it’ll be a fight. At this point you’ve nothing to lose by applying/interviewing.

meganorks · 05/09/2023 20:26

I think you should go back. Rather than being second best it might well be because they realise you are the best candidate and are prepared to be flexible. Or someone just said no and now they have had more time to think about it. You might as well go and see. They can't just backtrack if you get it written into your contract that you are 4 days a week

Original poster
ShadowPuppets · 05/09/2023 20:27

BeeEyeEnGeeOh · 05/09/2023 20:23

Can you do compressed hours? I do 5 days in 4 and it works brilliantly, I do normal length days and then catch up in the evenings when I need to. It means I get paid for the work I do rather than having a 20% cut and still having the same workload!

@BeeEyeEnGeeOh not really - with commutes (city to Home Counties) it means having 4 days where I don’t really see the kids which doesn’t feel like a worthy trade off considering that I’m making these changes for more time with the family. I know a lot of people who do it, I just don’t think it’s an option for me.

OP posts:
Twistyripple · 05/09/2023 20:30

Could you get it specified in the contract that you only work 4 days? Seems a simple fix if they're willing to offer it verbally, ask for it in writing and then there's no arguments in the future about your days/hours increasing. Both parties being aware of expectations should surely be the best option going forward?

Original poster
ShadowPuppets · 05/09/2023 20:30

Also have to work around DH who has an equivalent job in a similar industry with similar salary so it’s a bit of a juggle!

OP posts:
Starseeking · 05/09/2023 20:31

ShadowPuppets · 05/09/2023 20:21

This is a good idea. I don’t want to say a straight no but I don’t feel wildly confident (tbh I feel a bit second best!) by the initial response. Seems like a good third way between going yes or no.

I actually think you should take it as a compliment that they have been unable to find anyone better suited to the role than you, rather than feeling slighted by them coming back.

You've got the upper hand at this point, as they need you more than you need them, and you've got nothing to lose by having an initial conversation.

I would however be very clear on asking specific questions along the lines of:

  • initially the job was full time, what changed to make it part-time
  • which aspects of the JD (I would have it in front of you) have been removed
  • who will be doing the work which was supposed to be done on day 5
  • do any other team members work part-time/4 days a week (to gauge company culture)
  • what does career development in this role look like

After having the conversations, you still don't need to accept it if it's offered, but could take your confidence boost from the process to look for other roles on a similar salary.

Original poster
ShadowPuppets · 05/09/2023 20:32

Approaching · 05/09/2023 20:25

I’d apply, but be quite pushy about ensuring they guarantee the day off and reasonable workload. You should get a good feel from them as to whether it’ll be a fight. At this point you’ve nothing to lose by applying/interviewing.

Good point, I know logically there’s not much to lose. Just worried that lots of companies can sell you all the good chat and then once you’re inside it’s magically ‘not doable’…

Honestly, pre kids and massive mortgage I’d have probably done that, I just don’t want to be in a situation where I need to move again, I need a bit of stability at this point. Hence staying in the ‘comfy’ job…

OP posts:
Original poster
ShadowPuppets · 05/09/2023 20:33

meganorks · 05/09/2023 20:26

I think you should go back. Rather than being second best it might well be because they realise you are the best candidate and are prepared to be flexible. Or someone just said no and now they have had more time to think about it. You might as well go and see. They can't just backtrack if you get it written into your contract that you are 4 days a week

Thanks - that’s helping me not feel so slighted by the ‘second chance’!

OP posts:
Original poster
ShadowPuppets · 05/09/2023 20:34

Twistyripple · 05/09/2023 20:30

Could you get it specified in the contract that you only work 4 days? Seems a simple fix if they're willing to offer it verbally, ask for it in writing and then there's no arguments in the future about your days/hours increasing. Both parties being aware of expectations should surely be the best option going forward?

See I’m fairly confident they’d agree it in contract. I’m just worried about my first impression of organisation culture. Maybe I’m overthinking it…

OP posts:
Original poster
ShadowPuppets · 05/09/2023 20:36

Starseeking · 05/09/2023 20:31

I actually think you should take it as a compliment that they have been unable to find anyone better suited to the role than you, rather than feeling slighted by them coming back.

You've got the upper hand at this point, as they need you more than you need them, and you've got nothing to lose by having an initial conversation.

I would however be very clear on asking specific questions along the lines of:

  • initially the job was full time, what changed to make it part-time
  • which aspects of the JD (I would have it in front of you) have been removed
  • who will be doing the work which was supposed to be done on day 5
  • do any other team members work part-time/4 days a week (to gauge company culture)
  • what does career development in this role look like

After having the conversations, you still don't need to accept it if it's offered, but could take your confidence boost from the process to look for other roles on a similar salary.

Show quote history

This is incredibly helpful - thank you. Great plan and great questions to ask.

I think I’m having a little bit of a crisis of confidence as it’s my first job search post kids so I don’t feel quite so ‘let’s fuck around and find out’ about my career!

OP posts:
Trianglesandcircles1 · 05/09/2023 21:05

If you go for it and get the job, and are paid for 4 days of work, don't do more than 4 days of work. Just leave work undone.
It is not your responsibility to work unpaid overtime in the evenings or weekends to bail out an exploitative or badly organised employer. If the work can't all be done in 4 days, that is your manager's problem, not yours.

I understand what you are saying about your current role, that the evening work is fair in return for flexibility, but that is a slippery slope and you would do better to have firmer boundaries with your new employer.

Original poster
ShadowPuppets · 05/09/2023 21:09

Trianglesandcircles1 · 05/09/2023 21:05

If you go for it and get the job, and are paid for 4 days of work, don't do more than 4 days of work. Just leave work undone.
It is not your responsibility to work unpaid overtime in the evenings or weekends to bail out an exploitative or badly organised employer. If the work can't all be done in 4 days, that is your manager's problem, not yours.

I understand what you are saying about your current role, that the evening work is fair in return for flexibility, but that is a slippery slope and you would do better to have firmer boundaries with your new employer.

Thank you - I completely agree. It’s actually one of the reasons I’m open to a new role, if I’m in a team I don’t have to carry the can quite so much.

OP posts:
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