To report my mum to her Housing association for antisocial behaviour

[CrossingBoundaries007]

For lighting several small candles in her housing association flat?

I'm considering calling the police as the Gp can't help and neither can the housing association. She needs to be put back on her medication asap.

To Offer a bit of context my mum suffered from paranoid schizophrenia and hoarding for over 17 years. Around 7 years ago after years of treatment she got discharged and was free to chose whether to continue the treatment or not and we decided she had a good enough support system and she no longer needed all the medication.

She quickly became happy and healthy and all was well. She made friends spent time with her grandchildren etc.

Fast forward to last year, she started displaying signs of relapse and this year she has become increasingly unwell but she doesn't realise it. I called her GP to explain but there is not much they can do. Her symptoms include:

Lighting candles around the house to ward off spirits

Placing garlic around the home to ward of evil spirits

She thinks her home is being visited while she's away so she carries all her food around in a large trolly to avoid poisoning.

She has been wearing the same clothes for months now, she washes then and wears them damp

She has become very thin, lost approximately 15kg

Gives away all her money but can still handle her affairs to an extent.

Really can't see what the police would be able to do in this situation. She needs mh support not arresting !
As PP suggested, call the HA and see if they have any welfare support and/or speak with the GP.
In the interim can you support her candle burning by giving her holders or something so they can burn safely and ask her to keep them away from flammable things.

would a visit from the fire service, to look at her smoke detector, be any use?

I'm so sorry to hear your DM is not well. It's such a concerning time for the family. I think her Housing Officer would want to know and would be able to contact social work and health services on their tenants behalf. From my experience social work, district nurses and housing all work closely together but realise things work differently in different areas.

Mental health crisis team and/or adult social care are your first port of call. It's really difficult to meet the threshold for section 136 emergency police section for 72 hour assessment. It doesn't sound like she'd meet it. Someone has to be at imminent risk to themselves or others, and lighting candles and carrying her food around isn't that, although I fully understand your concerns.

All of you have been so kind and I appreciate all the advice. Thank you for your encouragement.

I will contact her GP again and see if they can give me the contact of the crisis team. I will ask her HA if they have a safeguarding team as well.

Why can't her GP help?

@ZadocPDederick I contacted the GP and they claimed that she's an adult so can't be forced to take treatment.

Very weak response given her history, she was sectioned for around 2 months before she began treatment.

I understand how upsetting this is for you, and you have been given excellent advise regarding contacting MH services. However contacting the Fire Brigade as a pp suggested is also a good shout. They will be able to come out to your mum and give safety advice, and it also allows them to be aware of the situation/flat/layout should a fire occur as they have a database of houses of concern which will be flagged up should a fire occur. I have done this for people I have supported in the past.

@UndercoverCop it is now only 24 hours... It was changed a few years ago.. It can be extended to 36 hours under certain circumstances.

@PurpleNebula84 oh wow, I'm surprised they can even find a place of safety to assess within 24 hours or maybe that's just my local area, trying to find a space for a s2 is near on impossible even with pressure from MAPPA.
I mainly deal with s37/41 hospital order cases now (not from a MH perspective) and the occasional S3, so out of the loop

She needs a welfare check by SS, not the police or the HA!

@UndercoverCop - they usually end up sat in A&E if there is no PoS available.

Lighting candles isn’t antisocial behaviour though, the HA would assume you were causing trouble. Is adult social services not an option? Her doctor should be seeing her as a matter of urgency too.

So sorry you're going through this. You need her local Crisis Resolution Team. They are set up to deal with assessing deteriorating MH issues and while operating on 'least restrictive' principles, will if needed, take swift action.

I'd be wary of trying to pull HA in unless they're a specialist MH HA, or you know them to have a genuinely supportive and clued up specialist MH department.
I'll be unpopular for my views, and absolutely don't wish to slate the better HA's, but painful experience of how their involvement as leads, can actually delay and even prevent help, has taught me to be wary.

They are landlords not social workers but often believe they can manage everything in house. Personal beliefs come into play.
Many often have often have far less competency than they think they have, and there's a huge gap between those at the top who talk the talk, and the front line tenancy managers actually dealing with large case loads of what are seen to be problem tenants, under the auspices of support. You can end up with unqualified assessments, increased paranoia., and sticking plasters where surgery's needed.

Ours aren't keen on tenants being hospitalized, as housing benefit stops, resulting in large debts to the HA for unpaid rent, that the HA then has to recover and enforce.
If in too long, or without long enough gaps, HB becomes erratic, and they can face eviction if they can't pay off regularly once back in the community. 'Managing' the tenants behaviors can be seen as preferable.
I can see their point, and sometimes it's well meant, but they aren't generally the best people to decide what may or may not be in an individual tenants best interests, and when it goes wrong it gets brushed under the carpet.

The HA can't stop her lighting candles. What they can easily do, is make her feel more persecuted, invaded and threatened, by being inept or heavy handed.

Btw police can detain someone under section in their own home, but they have to be actively causing very significant harm to themselves or others and there have to be very watertight reasons. They are rightly very reluctant to do so as people have a right to make 'unsafe decisions' and live in all sorts of conditions with behaviors the majority wouldn't consider ok.

You absolutely need to be going down the CRT, MH, GP and adult social services routes and people who are properly trained and qualified to understand MH issues, deterioration etc, making the decisions.

Does the HA have a Tenancy Sustainment Officer? Have a look on their website or just give them a call. When I was going through a particularly difficult situation (MH) they were very supportive and helpful and able to get me signposted to services quickly. I don’t think are people aware of some of the help and support that is actually available through their HA.

Contact your local police and ask to speak to the inspector who deals with vulnerability. Most police services have vulnerability hubs who deal with these type of issues on an inter agency basis and review each case monthly.

Well, quite. Is it worth trying to talk to the GP directly and ask at what point they would consider sectioning someone who isn't consenting to treatment that she clearly needs?

Psst!.......theres finally an 'edit post' function for moments like this. 😉

Hi OP

This sounds really stressful as it's sound like you can see what is happening but no one wants to help.

As a previous poster suggested it is worth contacting the fire brigade. In my area they do safe and well visits. At this visit they will risk assess the property and your mum and will offer help and support. This is called a person cantered fire risk assessment or pcfra for short. They will also refer to relevant agencies if they have concerns so can be an extra voice.

With regards to the taking her food with her etc if the GP is not being helpful I would contact the local community mental health team and report your concerns to them. I would phrase it as safeguarding concerns that she is a risk to herself when unwell.

Also ask if the HA has a tenancy sustainment team. In some certain types of housing such as older persons there is very clear guidance set out about the duty of care they have to their residents and the fire stance may be your foot in the door to get help with the other parts too. Most HA will come from a help and support point of view not an eviction stance, as they have to take into account the persons vulnerabilities when taking any actions. Eviction would be deemed un proportionate in the circumstances unless all help and support options had been tried and unsuccessful.

Just an update, I called the mental health crisis team who asked me to call emergency service's instead. They said anything could happen and since she was alone she was at high risk and that the only way she can get the care she needs and be referred for treatment.

I was a bit apprehensive but they were very understanding and said they would visit and carry out an as.

Thanks again to everyone who responded, much appreciated and for the advice and kind words. ❤