School have asked year 4 children to switch from Cursive

[Rp735]

This is causing me stress so worth getting the opinion of MN. DD went to first day of year 4 today and her teacher has told the class that they are not to use cursive or joined handwriting anymore and need to practice broken. I have checked with other children too who have confirmed. They have been in the school from reception and are quite competent in writing cursive by now. The class as a whole has been struggling due to lack of learning during covid and many teachers leaving in the years following that. I was really hoping this would be the year the would finally be able to catch up. However, this new change will set them back considerably, in my opinion. Also annoying that there was no communication regarding this. AIBU to be angry and to complain?

My child had this as they were schooled abroad from 3 to 9 years. It was so hard adjusting. My child ended up with a hybrid type and just came out with A stars and A ‘s in A level so my advice let them develop their handwriting as much as they are comfortable but don’t worry too much as most examiners can read all types.

I agree it's in the docs @IsitChristmasyet23 but here's some of the responses on this thread:

Not in my school they wouldn’t. We assess written work by the content, not by what it looks like.

They don’t have to join all the time, just prove they can by writing a paragraph or so in joined. Vs children got working towards standard even for a few unjoined words.

I have no doubt this is what is happening in 3 different schools. That's probably different LAs interpreting the printed words in different ways.

How many wpm does each LA consider "at speed"?

Does everything need to be joined across all subjects or does this vary from LA to LA?

What is the bottom line for "legible" across LAs? Readable to everyone, or readable to people tuned into the child's writing?

I agree it's in black and white, but the words are open to interpretation by LAs.

Came to say exactly this. If they are not demonstrating consistency in cursive handwriting for Yr 6 writing assessment they cannot meet the expected standard and will be assessed as working towards.

Can only imagine the school have decided they need to backtrack to move forward with presentation.

I agree there must be variation between schools. DS arrived just before summer term of year 6 from overseas. Had only written joined up in school handwriting lessons, printing for all other work, which was barely legible as it was. He was told to write joined up for SATs, certainly wasn't demonstrating consistency but met the standard!

It does not vary - it is a statutory assessment. Moderators have statutory training. The issue is that many teachers get stale and don’t know outside of their key stage. This is poor practice. All teachers should know start and end points. It’s not negotiated by moderators either. They will need to see consistent, joined and legible writing. Not every piece but they will ask to see it.

Do schools push the boundaries if they are not being moderated. I’m sure they do but that is reportable and you risk losing your registration.

People have got confused by the stopping of the ‘lead in’ further down. Cursive is a required at the end of KS2 - no ifs or buts. I can’t explain poor knowledge of the UKS2 curriculum from some teachers.

It’s not rules. It’s statutory in England.

I even find typed cursive difficult to read as an adult! I'm an avid reader, but letters from the school using typed cursive are not easy on the eye.

I know what statutory means!
It is required by law. Which is pretty much another word for rules.
It doesn’t make it a good rule/law.
I repeat, a persons handwriting has no impact on the quality of their writing. Steven Hawkins wrote award winning books and he couldn’t write anything by hand.
It simply should not have the weight to stop a good writer from being recognised as such.
I help moderate the year 6 writing in my school and we abide by the guidance but I can still hate it!

It simply should not have the weight to stop a good writer from being recognised as such.
I agree, it was so lovely and refreshing to have DS's year 6 teacher comment positively on his actual writing rather than the focus on his below average handwriting and spelling. The focus had been more on writing overseas so his sentence variation and vocabulary were quite good.

I never said I agree with it. I think you’ll find most teachers hate it and find it pointless. Especially as secondary don’t really care. The concern is actual teachers on this thread saying it is not part of the curriculum or ‘done at their school.’ It will be done at their school - they may not be aware of it further up but they should be.

Our primary doesn't teach cursive writing.

As a secondary school teacher, primary school attitudes to handwriting are the bane of my life. We get kids in Y7 who’ve never used a pen before because they didn’t get their ‘pen licence’ at primary, and so many who lack confidence and are embarrassed or ashamed of their writing because they were told it’s too big/small/slanted/not cursive. It blows their mind when I tell them that as long as it’s legible, I don’t care. It’s what they write that’s important.

This is exactly my experience with summer born DS, who was just turned 5 when he was expected to start joining up his handwriting before he’d properly mastered single letter formation. He’s now 13 and his handwriting is still terrible. I’ve always said I’m sure it’s because he started cursive too early.

When I was at school joined up handwriting was only taught in juniors so KS2, not KS1.

@LadyRoughDiamond when I was a primary (1980s) we had to do joined up writing (not cursive) and use ink pens - you know the type with cartridges.
Oh it was a faff. Ink blots everywhere. Ink on hands, ink on clothes.
My teacher used to go on and on that "they will expect this in secondary school" (this was the days when everyone just went up to the same secondary). My sister was already there...NO ONE at the secondary used ink pens. They used biro pens. The secondary teacher got annoyed if you started faffing around with cartridges.
I pointed this out to my primary teacher.....in front of the whole class 😂😂😂😂
I actually loved handwriting practice. Sometimes if the class was being naughty my teacher would threaten we would not be able to do PE and would have to stay in and do handwriting instead.
I'd be like...."yes please.....bring on the ink" 😂

It is not Primary School attitudes, it is statutory assessment criteria.

@BogRollBOGOF - Touch typing is a neglected skill in the education system

This 100%. I question why this isn't taught in schools.

As a touch typist, I plan on teaching my eldest DD when she gets to Year 7 next year.

I agree with this. From Y7 onwards we're just glad if they can hold a pen and rub it on a piece of paper long enough to make some shapes that may resemble letters.

Statutory assessment criteria to give out pen licences and systematically destroy children's confidence? Catch yourself on, you've missed the point of the post you're criticising.

It does not vary - it is a statutory assessment. Moderators have statutory training.

Oh, it really does vary @IsitChristmasyet23 . I assume you've never been in a room where you've watched 4 moderators trained by the same LA team unable to agree on a child's writing assessment due to the handwriting. To watch the lead moderator for the LA not come to a decision and refer it back to the teacher to make the call, as they know the child best.

I've also been in moderator training where the lead moderator who is training everyone is asked a question about handwriting. They give their interpretation of their understanding. The trainee argues back. The moderator changes their answer.

Imagine these things happening in different LAs. No consistency across the country at all.

I don't need to 'catch myself on'. Pen licenses haven't been the norm for about a decade and the poster I quoted mentioned reducing children's confidence by telling them it is too big/small/slanted/not cursive. They are told this not because of Primary attitudes, but because to meet the expected standard, children have to maintain legibility in joined handwriting when writing at speed.

And for the record, pen licenses are evil things. They're still in use in at least 3 local schools I know of @Callyem

@Callyem my daughter's primary had pen licences and she only left 4 years ago. She never got hers. She still is a bit miffed about that. She developed an issue with her hand around the age of 8 and her handwriting went from perfectly fine to barely legible. For a while she used a laptop for writing and was offered one for the Year 6 sats but decided against it. Her writing by then was neat - but only if it was "printing" not joined up. She did really good at her sats - I don't know if she was given an exemption for her writing. I think she was.
Anyways.....4 years on she still every so often grumbles about "I never got my pen licence" and adds that to the list of things she disliked about her old primary.

Perhaps it is a regional thing. Having worked in a North London borough and a bordering Herts authority, including moderating end of KS2 writing, pen licenses are something that are seen as archaic and very much bad practice. Haven't seen a school use them since very early in my career!

This. For the painfully illiterate teachers who don’t know the curriculum.

Maybe read their point. That’s not what they said. So catch yourself on? They were talking about the requirement to write at speed, legibly and joined. This is a statutory requirement. I’ve posted the link if you care to read.