So a guy has been in prison for 11 years and counting for stealing a phone but Michelle Mone has millions of stolen taxpayers money?

[Crapsummer2023]

And she was last seen posing on a yacht spending our money. Nadhim Zahawi was also accused of dodgy dealings but is about to become Chair of Telegraph newspapers.

This guy stole a phone over a decade ago and still has no release date. How can anyone convince themselves we don’t live in a corrupt country?

https://www.theguardian.com/law/2023/sep/03/un-highlights-psychological-harm-to-uk-man-jailed-since-2012-for-phone-theft

As PP has said, the sentence is probably related to the risks posed by his psychiatric condition.

There has been a trend towards "deinstitutionalization" of psychiatric conditions in the last 50 years. What this has often mean, in practice, is that people with these problems just end up in prisons rather than in psychiatric wards.

They've had 13 years to change it and have chosen not to.

Fortunately all the other stories did not leave "it" out - because the Guardian conveniently did not leave anything out.

• He was convicted only of stealing a mobile phone
• There was previous history of only petty crime
• At no time did he present a risk to the public
• His mental health problems arose because of the length of time in prison and did not present at all before he was imprisoned
• His tariff was two years
• The only reason he is still in jail is because he had not completed court mandated courses whilst in prison - courses that were not available in the prisons he was sent to

You are quite right - there is a lot more to it.

• His mental health problems arose because of the length of time in prison and did not present at all before he was imprisoned

Really unlikely. Imprisonment is a horrible experience but people are not likely to develop psychosis as a result of it. And it is psychosis he is showing, not just a common or garden "mental health problem."

Most likely, there was some pretty serious stuff going on well before imprisonment which is not being shared with us here.

IPPs were introduced by Labour as a means to try to deal with a small number of potentially dangerous repeat offenders- by introducing an indeterminate licence period Probation could manage such people and their risks including recall to prison without having to take them back through court or potentially them reoffending.

however, in practice it went tits up and the courts handed them out like smarties to somewhat complicated but small beer offenders like the poor soul in the article. They should never have been used for stealing phones etc but they were given out with ridiculously short tariffs like 2 years, 18 months etc. The problem these unsuitable for IPP guys and girls then faced is that few prisons had the offence related programmes for them to complete in order for the Parole board to agree their licence conditions and release from prison. So most got stuck.

About 4000 or so are now persistently affected by the IPP sentence despite it being struck out in 2012. Some are admittedly people who would have gone on to be on life licence, but most were place on it inappropriately and are stuck. It should have been dealt with in 2012. It is a human rights abuse. I have worked in prison mental health and work in secure mental health and yes it does have huge and lasting impacts - the hopelessness of the situation which is never ending in the current horror of the prison estate in England and Wales, where the regime in many jails has not been restored post Covid (23 hour lock up), they are filthy, no repairs, full of vermin, short staffed, etc. and when they see people released at tariff or on parole for the same crime or much worse, it drives many of the suicides of IPP prisoners.

I would say it is not so much corruption preventing this from being dealt with, rather an inept government where ministers are never in post long enough to be on top of their brief and are terrified of the right wing press that they think represents the voter to actually get to grips with such a thorny problem. Whereas I think there are a couple of fairly straightforward solutions that could be implemented by a minister with a brain and backbone!

Clearly you know the person, court cases are a matter of public record, so maybe link that?

No I do not know the person at all. I am simply capable of doing effective research before I comment - unlike the people here who wrongly assumed that he must have done something worse and accused the Guardian of missing out facts (that did not exist) to support their incorrect judgements.

Just found this thread.

I think people like Michelle Mone use top lawyers and think they are untouchable.

Individual's from poor backgrounds don't have the money to defend themselves and so proportionally get bigger punishments.

She's shown herself to be corrupt as well as extremely greedy and morally bankrupt but still feeling she is a victim who has done nothing wrong. Add delusional to her list of traits.

She is being focused on because she broke the rules and used her position to secure a multi million pound contract for her husband. Then lied and lied again. Then used lawyers to try to prevent journalists releasing what the corrupt pair did.

Now she uses the victim card. Contemptible.

I'm glad the guy is still in prison, hopefully this case will act as a warning that even "petty" crime can have long-term, life-altering consequences for the perpetrator, just as it can for victims.

This sort of extended prison sentence should be the starting point for people who rob others.

He had 16 previous convictions for theft and robbery, he didn't get a prison sentance for just stealing a mobile phone

It is wayyy more than one guy. Look up IPP sentences.

You sound delightful.

I hadn't heard of this case before. I still say that very rich people tend to use expensive lawyers to get themselves out of trouble. This bloke has done 12 years. If mentally ill then should be treated

How many years should Michelle mone get fir corruption, not following legal guidelines over disclosure, lying (she has admitted lying) and profiteering at the expense of the NHS for faulty ppi?

Surely more than a mobile phone thief?

"I'm glad the guy is still in prison, hopefully this case will act as a warning that even "petty" crime can have long-term, life-altering consequences for the perpetrator, just as it can for victims."

Well no, because they can't get an IPP for any crime now, petty or otherwise.

Actually, reassuringly, most of us didn’t for for these shits, it’s just that our wanky electoral system means millions of people’s votes are wasted.

Exactly. If people understood first past the post they would understand that more people didn't vote for then than did.
I hope MM and her dreadful husband are stripped from their assets, she's thrown out of the Lords and she is sent to prison