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Original poster

Adult ballet - being allowed en pointe too soon!

58 replies

balletfliss · 31/08/2023 15:07

I've noticed some really poor technique in adult pointe classes over the past few years, but never as bad as the past year. I don't know why that could be.

It's actually dangerous in that it risks injury, their turnout is wrong or non existent, and placement poor. Chatting before and after classes I'm not surprised to hear that most of these women have never done pointe before, even as children. They've been allowed to buy pointe shoes and join the pointe class after only one or two years as adult ballet beginners at the school.

One woman had done a year in grade four as a complete beginner and just been fitted for her pointe shoes. Ridiculous! I'd seen her in the grade 4 class and she couldn't manage all of the steps in flat shoes, or very well.

I wonder if anyone has found the same? I haven't been back to those classes as it doesn't inspire trust in the teachers involved. I also worried for them, injury-wise. Fortunately I've found somewhere where they're quite strict with entry criteria and care about the dancers.

OP posts:
Original poster
balletfliss · 31/08/2023 20:01

I realise this is a niche, narrow topic to ask about. 😀

Hopeful bump

OP posts:
aspirationalflamingo · 31/08/2023 20:07

I know almost nothing about ballet, but that does sound concerning.

Were the teachers qualified? (I don't know what qualifications exist for ballet.)

It seems so easy for people to set themselves up as sport/dance instructors, I'm not surprised this kind of thing happens.

SpamIAm · 31/08/2023 20:21

Also no experience of ballet, although I do other adult dance classes. If I did join a ballet class as an adult then I wouldn't ever expect to do pointe having not done any ballet when younger, and with only doing it casually so not building up the experience and technique required.

So I agree it sounds quite concerning and I expect it's a case of giving people what they want to keep the money coming in...

buckingmad · 31/08/2023 20:28

20+ years of ballet, done all my RAD exams etc. I did a lot of pointe work and then had a few years off and then went to an adult class shortly after giving birth. The teacher said I could bring my pointe shoes. I said absolutely no way, I’m weak, my technique is shoddy etc. so I stuck to Demi pointe. This was a professional dance school that trains to a high standard. I dunno what it is about adult classes, it’s like they throw all caution to the wind.

smooththecat · 31/08/2023 20:32

May be a controversial opinion, but I don’t get the point (intended) of going en pointe as an adult when you are probably never going to perform. All of the joy and the other huge benefits are there in the training as far as I’m concerned. En pointe is just icing on the cake.

Professionalmess · 31/08/2023 20:37

I danced as a child/teen and I've done adult classes in my 20s (I was never going to be professional but it brought me joy).

I think there is a romantasized idea about becoming a ballerina and it encourages teachers to push so people keep coming back. I wouldn't go en pointe at all now as an adult. I'm so far out condition and I doubt if any amount of work could bring back what I'd spent most of my youth honing.

If I didn't have a broken arm right now I'd be breaking out my tap shoes.

Insommmmnia · 31/08/2023 20:40

I agree it seems they are less concerned in adult classes

My sister has hypermobility and despite doing 15 years of ballet as a child her ballet teacher at the time never allowed her to go on pointe shoes because she would go over on her ankles too easily

A month into adult ballet classes and she was being urged to get pointe shoes by the teacher who was clearly not assessing her body properly

Deftandglory · 31/08/2023 20:43

Obviously developing young people need to be careful and adults that are doing intensive dance most days. Do you think they think that adults doing a class or two a week won’t do much damage? Presumably most people do ballet for fun/ fitness will stop when it hurts enough to impact normal life.

continentallentil · 31/08/2023 20:48

I had absolutely no idea adults did this in ballet classes. I thought pointe was only for pros.

GLORIAGloriarse · 31/08/2023 20:59

Asking from an interested but ignorant stance- I have done some adult ballet classes that have been purely recreational with no view towards grades, performance or very advanced technique let alone pointe. Never really did any as a kid. I can understand taking extreme care with children and teenagers. But if an adult understands the risks, has some fitness and ballet ability and wishes to try en pointe then could the teacher's judgement be that they will know if and when they have reached the limit of their ability? As in, their feet will let them know more than anything and they have much less motivation than a hopeful professional to push themselves too far? I assume the classes are an hour or so a week and they don't spend the whole time en pointe. I am probably very wrong just wondered whether this is the rationale.

MaitreKarlsson · 31/08/2023 21:23

Long-time dancer here, RAD and ISTD exams a long (long) time ago, not good enough to do it as a career but still do adult classes.

I have never heard of older adults doing ballet lessons en pointe unless they either did loads of pointe work in their youth, or were actually professional dancers.
My current class includes some very good adult dancers, some danced professionally, but absolutely no one is en pointe any more.

@GLORIAGloriarse it's a fair point, but it's so extreme and potentially damaging I think it isn't that simple...even girls who do dancing for several years aren't automatically allowed pointe shoes unless their technique is good enough (at least that was how it was in my day....)
Adults haven't got a hope of developing that strength if they are starting older. They are also likely to be a lot heavier...likely to lead to joint problems etc.

@balletfliss I think I'd probably report that first school to their qualifying authority - sounds very weird.

hennybeans · 31/08/2023 21:39

My dd was allowed her pointe shoes at 13, having done ballet since age 3. She did years of exercises beforehand to strengthen the right muscles and at 13 was much lighter and more developed muscle-wise than the average amateur adult dancer.

I can’t really imagine an adult in pointe shoes who isn’t training professionally. I think it’s irresponsible of the dance studio to encourage it and I suspect it’s for financial reasons ultimately. Dancing en pointe is exciting , makes you feel special like you’ve achieved something and keeps you coming back to the classes. Until you are injured.

Strawfairytart · 31/08/2023 21:56

Adults are allowed to do dangerous sports/activities if they choose to.

While you may be right, you don't gatekeep adults trying to dance on their tippy toes.

Adults get to choose. You can choose not to do what you don't want to.

TeenLifeMum · 31/08/2023 22:01

Our adult ballet classes are not en pointe. Dd is 12 and has had pointes for a year in grade 4 but she does her grade 4 class without them an additional class with but they don’t use them for the full 50 minutes. Dd is the youngest in her year (30 August) so most are a little older.

Movingandlooking · 31/08/2023 22:14

I did ballet from 4 to 16. And the class wasn't allowed pointe until everyone was ready. This was then taught ad an additional 20 minute class and involved a lot of bar work. We where the same class apart from people who left from about 8 years old. So we where all at the same level. I ended up stopping shortly after as my step dad didn't want to pay for the lessons. Literally broke my heart

menopausalmare · 31/08/2023 22:23

My mum is 80 and has dreadful feet having been allowed en pointe from a young age. Her feet have been a source of pain and embarrassment for her entire life.

TedWilson · 31/08/2023 22:27

If I went en pointe now my toes would break under the weight.

underneaththeash · 31/08/2023 22:33

I got to grade 5 ballet as a child and was basically told I was too fat to go en pointe. So, I stopped ballet. I was quite plump TBH. I'm actually not now, but I'm much heavier than most ballerinas

Surely standing on the tip of your foot is only for tiny tiny people!

Thepeopleversuswork · 31/08/2023 22:43

I haven't done ballet since I was eight and didn't get anywhere near the standard of pointe work but this is fascinating.

I've always wondered how pointe work works: do you literally stand on the absolute tip of your toes? or do you sort of scrunch your feet up and curl your toes forwards?

Either way, it sounds unsuitable for adult ballet apart from people who have done a lot of training in their youth and should probably carry a health warning. On the other hand if people want to do it in full knowledge of the risks it's hard to stop them. Better that they do it with some supervision from someone who knows what they are doing than try it at home...

Original poster
balletfliss · 31/08/2023 22:46

aspirationalflamingo · 31/08/2023 20:07

I know almost nothing about ballet, but that does sound concerning.

Were the teachers qualified? (I don't know what qualifications exist for ballet.)

It seems so easy for people to set themselves up as sport/dance instructors, I'm not surprised this kind of thing happens.

I'm not sure if it was mentioned. I would have to check. They're not an ex professional, but use the name of one of the main dance exam boards so I'm guessing they have a dance teaching certificate if they're using their name.

OP posts:
Deftandglory · 31/08/2023 22:50

Dancing en pointe is exciting , makes you feel special like you’ve achieved something and keeps you coming back to the classes. Until you are injured.

This really. I would imagine an adult tip toeing for half a class once a week isn’t going to do serious damage unlike kids whose bones and muscles are still growing.

peppermintcrisp · 31/08/2023 22:59

My DD was only allowed to use pointe shoes at 13 and she was training vocationally. She did 10+ hours per week plus strengthening classes on top. She was only en point 15 - 30 mins twice a week.

peppermintcrisp · 31/08/2023 23:00

Just add she was at Intermediate/Adv 1 ballet level.

Original poster
balletfliss · 31/08/2023 23:01

I've always wondered how pointe work works: do you literally stand on the absolute tip of your toes? or do you sort of scrunch your feet up and curl your toes forwards?

I'm not a dance teacher, and I bet someone can give a better explanation than me. I'll try.

No, you're not literally standing and putting the whole weight on your toes. Toes are straight and should be a pulled up sensation out of the shoe (bad explanation). You need to have the strength in the feet, ankles and legs and core should also be strong so that you're pulled up. You also don't want to sink into the shoes.

You should have the good posture, placement and turnout from your years of training dancing in flat ballet shoes, then perhaps demi pointe shoes. If your technique isn't strong on flat you really shouldn't be going on pointe.

The people I saw couldn't get over the box and weren't turned out from the hip etc

OP posts:
Theroom · 31/08/2023 23:14

I don't know the answer to your question, but I was allowed en pointe at around 14. I'd longed to wear them for years. But I hated it! It was so painful! I have sometimes wondered if my shoes fitted badly, I wasn't technically ready, my feet weren't strong enough or the right shape, or just bad teaching. Or low pain threshold?! Other people in the class didn't seem to find it as painful!

I gave up ballet quite soon afterwards.