To think a joint student rental without guarantors is risky?

imogo · 2023-08-31T11:52:06+00:00

DC is arranging his first joint student rental property with friends. All full time students. The flat is currently empty, and so the landlord and tenants all want to move quickly. It is a "joint and several" contract. The landlord has waived his right to get references. He also says he doesn't need guarantors. 🤔The other tenants and (reportedly) parents are happy to proceed on this basis, but I think that adding guarantors will be a safety net. e.g. if one tenant can't pay their rent, and the others become liable for making up the difference, there will be no guarantor to chase for reimbursement. I realise that if I am a guarantor I increase my own personal liability, but if not, and my son becomes liable, I will end up cushioning him financially anyway - at least a formal guarantor arrangement will help me to redress this. Aibu?

Ghastisflabbered · 31/08/2023 13:15

This is fairly normal for student lets - I’ve lived in a few over the years (two bachelors degrees and two masters) and every single time it was part of the contract that if one person couldn’t pay then the rest of us were liable.

Even if they did have guarantors - you would have no redress against the other guarantors - that would be for the landlord/letting agent.

ky7sa · 31/08/2023 13:16

I was in a flatshare exactly the same as that when I was in uni and it devolved into a complete mess when one tenant went AWOL.

I'd advise against you being the ONLY parent guarantor who steps up as you will likely not just be responsible for your son's share, but for the entire rent, if the group of tenants falls into arrears. Check the wording on the guarantor agreement.

modgepodge · 31/08/2023 13:19

Yeah from memory the guarantors are all responsible for all the rent, not just their own child’s, so if you were guarantor you’d be responsible for all the tenants rent anyway. So not sure it makes much difference.

Precipice · 31/08/2023 13:21

There's no difference to you. If your son can't pay, you acknowledge you'd be paying anyway. Having the (other) parents listed as guarantors would be no help to you.

Dotjones · 31/08/2023 13:21

As long as you're happy to be legally responsible for the whole of the rent if anyone defaults then you can be a guarantor. But it's key that you understand you're not just guaranteeing your son's rent, you're guaranteeing the whole lot. I don't see any benefit to you in doing this. You say you'll end up having to help your son if one (or more) of the others don't pay. That's fine but what benefit is there to you making yourself legally responsible for the others?

Rudolphthefrog · 31/08/2023 13:23

The way I understood it though, you as guarantor would be effectively joint and severally liable too - and you wouldn’t necessarily know who the other guarantors even are. So if flatmate X didn’t pay their share of the rent, or caused damage, instead of only being able to pursue some penniless students, now the landlord can also pursue their guarantors. Any of them, not just X’s. So instead of your son and his friends being liable for X’s debt, now you are too. The point of a landlord asking for guarantors is to protect themselves, not the students or their parents.

I dare say some people have persuaded landlords and agencies to agree to different terms, but I would be extremely careful what you wish for here!

6monthsto50 · 31/08/2023 13:32

Don’t give your name as a guarantor. Let your adult son decide if he wants to proceed.

enchantedsquirrelwood · 31/08/2023 13:34

modgepodge · 31/08/2023 13:19

Yeah from memory the guarantors are all responsible for all the rent, not just their own child’s, so if you were guarantor you’d be responsible for all the tenants rent anyway. So not sure it makes much difference.

Not necessarily. I am guarantor for my son's rent and it specifically says I am only liable for his share and nobody else's.

Last year I am not so sure, but fortunately we got to the end of the year with no dramas and he got his deposit back too!

Precipice · 31/08/2023 14:09

6monthsto50 · 31/08/2023 13:32

Don’t give your name as a guarantor. Let your adult son decide if he wants to proceed.

The landlord isn't asking for the guarantor anyway.

However, as to your 'let your adult son decide'. The son may be an adult, but he's a young adult, just off at university. It's common for landlords to require guarantors from students. If you come at it with an approach that it's for the adult son to decide - there's nothing for the son to decide. Either he can find a place and you (in the hypothetical) can serve as guarantor or he can't find a place. He may be able to find a place not requiring a parental guarantor, but this not guaranteed - it's often difficult for students to find a place as there is a lot of competition and rental listings don't specify that they require or don't require a guarantor. What do you expect to happen?

Original poster

imogo · 31/08/2023 23:49

Consider this scenario ...

Students Alex and Chris sign a "joint and several" contract for 12 months and split the £2000pcm rent between them.
After the first month, Chris drops out of uni and moves back home.
When the rent becomes due, Alex pays his £1000 share but Chris doesn't.
The landlord chases Chris but gets no response.
The landlord demands that Alex makes up the shortfall.

6 Alex can't afford it, so his mum steps in to pay the additional £1000 to the landlord.

Alex and his mum try to recover the money by taking Chris to court, but he declares himself bankrupt, so they don't get it.

If Chris had a guarantor, then step 5+ would have been different - the landlord could have chased the guarantor for the money, leaving Alex out of it. Or, if he did chase Alex, then Alex could subsequently chase Chris's guarantor to recover the loss.

This is why I think guarantor agreements protect tenants as well as landlords.

OP posts:

TriedToMakeMeGoToRehab · 31/08/2023 23:56

The guarantor agreement is a different form in my experience so “Alex” wouldn’t even know who the guarantor was as he wouldn’t have a copy and there’s no guarantee the landlord would chase the guarantor first.

Crinkle77 · 01/09/2023 00:26

If they had separate contracts then the OP would only be responsible for her sons rent if she were guarantor. I'd steer clear of becoming a guarantor for a joint contract.

caringcarer · 01/09/2023 00:31

What if one student decides to drop out? Are they going to agree that any student dropping out will have to keep paying their rent for room until the end of term when they might be able to get a replacement student into the room?

WomblingTree86 · 01/09/2023 00:34

If Chris moved out the landlord would chase Alex for the rent and if Alex couldn't pay he would probably evict him and chase Alex’s guarantor.

HappiDaze · 01/09/2023 00:36

Who in their right mind would want to be a guarantor in the first place.

Glorifried · 01/09/2023 01:32

I am guarantor for my son's rent and it specifically says I am only liable for his share and nobody else's.

Me too ^^

Op, I don't understand why you wouldn't want the landlord to chase them individually. Not your responsibility!

UsherBobble · 01/09/2023 02:32

My son has signed a contract like this for this coming year. As far as I am aware having a guarantor only really protects him? The landlord himself? I must admit at first I thought it was strange but he seems really genuine and reasonable.

Original poster

imogo · 01/09/2023 06:22

TriedToMakeMeGoToRehab · 31/08/2023 23:56

The guarantor agreement is a different form in my experience so “Alex” wouldn’t even know who the guarantor was as he wouldn’t have a copy and there’s no guarantee the landlord would chase the guarantor first.

In our case, the guarantors would sign the tenancy agreement, not a separate agreement, so we would have visibility.

OP posts:

Original poster

imogo · 01/09/2023 06:27

Crinkle77 · 01/09/2023 00:26

If they had separate contracts then the OP would only be responsible for her sons rent if she were guarantor. I'd steer clear of becoming a guarantor for a joint contract.

It is a joint and several contract Separate contracts aren't an option. The only open question is whether the joint contract has guarantors added or not.

I see it as "safety in numbers". A joint and several contract between 5 full time students is more risky than the same contract with 5 solvent guarantors added. (And I do know that they're solvent because they were succesfully referenced for a different property that fell through).

OP posts:

MrsTerryPratchett · 01/09/2023 06:33

You see it safety in numbers but it really isn't. As a landlord we would always look to all the tenants before any of the guarantors anyway. So much that we've actually stopped asking for them in most cases because we never really chase them. Not student housing.

WWYDIYWMRN · 01/09/2023 06:34

I agree op. My son is in a student let, I am guarantor, as are the parents of the other boys.

I assumed this was standard to reduce risk to the other tenants

Em2ds1dd · 01/09/2023 06:34

Where DD lived last year (house share 6 students), she had a joint liability contract. All parents were guarantors unless the rent was paid in full in advance for the year. We did this so didn’t act as guarantor - our thinking was that if someone else defaulted and the LL was unable to get the money from their guarantor, he would legally chase everyone else and as a penniless student DD would be bottom of his list.
plus the annual rent was £50k in total so there’s no way we could’ve paid it if everyone else defaulted!!

Elektra1 · 01/09/2023 06:38

modgepodge · 31/08/2023 13:19

Yeah from memory the guarantors are all responsible for all the rent, not just their own child’s, so if you were guarantor you’d be responsible for all the tenants rent anyway. So not sure it makes much difference.

I guarantee one of my DC's rent at uni. The guarantee covers only DC's portion of the rent. Under the lease, each tenant is liable for only their share of the rent (not joint and several). That's been the case in both years I've been guarantor.

Scottishskifun · 01/09/2023 06:40

imogo · 01/09/2023 06:27

It is a joint and several contract Separate contracts aren't an option. The only open question is whether the joint contract has guarantors added or not.

I see it as "safety in numbers". A joint and several contract between 5 full time students is more risky than the same contract with 5 solvent guarantors added. (And I do know that they're solvent because they were succesfully referenced for a different property that fell through).

Show quote history

They are adults who need to learn and budget their costs. It's not a bad thing and is an important life skill to learn!

In your position I would be going over how to budget and making sure they understand to put money aside for bills each month.

molotovcupcakes · 01/09/2023 06:45

If someone leaves half way through a tenancy then they can generally get a replacement flatmate and rent is payed in advance and so it generally seems to work out ok.
If it feels too risky to you then don’t let your son move in but he might miss out on living with this group of friends.
The main point I would suggest is to take lots of photos of the flat on the first day that they move in to the property as many landlords charge excessive ‘wear & tear’ fees at the end. Replace or repair any broken furniture themselves at the end of the tenancy (Southampton uni experience!).