To want a same day-dental appointment when I need it?

[VioletMar]

I’ve been suffering on and off with a wisdom tooth on my bottom left-side of my jaw that has only managed to grow partially through the gum. So it’s pretty much mostly hidden under my gum/cheek. At my last dentist appointment 6 months ago, I asked if the tooth should be removed and was advised that the teeth are only removed in extreme circumstances. So the tooth was left.
However this morning I’ve noticed parts of the tooth that I can see look like they are turning grey/black?
I’ve had constant pain for the last week. The pain radiates across my jaw, down my neck and is giving me an ear ache. But try as I might , I can not get a dentist appointment.
Usually I would pay private. But the cost of living/mortgage rate increase and my pending divorce means I just don’t have the surplus that I used to have. And so for the first time ever, I tried to get an NHS appointment But failed miserably.

I called my local dentist at 8am. It took 25 minutes to get through and all same day NHS appointments were gone.(( But I expect if I could pay the usual fees, they have squeezed me in!!) so I rang three other dentists listed on the NHS website in my local area and none were accepting new patients. I then 111 and held for 36 minutes, just to be given a number to call. which I duly rang. I held for 58 minutes, only to be told they had no appointments today (I should have called at 8am to bag one…) but if I call back tomorrow at 8am I might get an appointment , 30 minutes drive away. I wasn’t able to to pre-book the appointment at all. so back to 111 and now im waiting for a telephone appointment. Ive now been on the phone for over two hours , whilst trying to get kids sorted for the back to school and while trying to work from home myself. (Which won’t go unnoticed). All while dealing with this constant ache!

I’ve just looked at the cost of private practises. The cost of an appointment, possible xray, extraction etc quickly adds up to £300. I just can’t cover it. It’s about all I’ve got in the bank to cover food and petrol until my next pay day on the 25th. I’m so fed up. I can literally count on one hand the number of medical / dentist appointments I’ve been able to get within the last five years. But the deductions from my salary are always upwards of £275 monthly. Meaning I’ve paid approx £16000 plus in NHS contributions during that time but have had almost nothing in return.

I’m so incredibly fed up.

Any advice would be so appreciated.

When the NHS charges people for maternity, delivery and post-natal care, the minimum fee is £7,500. You mention 'kids' so I presume you have at least two. So no, you haven't had 'nothing in return' for your contributions.

Sadly, we all have to manage our expectations when it comes to NHS dentistry. It's a sorry state of affairs but it's the way things are.

If you've had pain all week why didn't you call when the pain started then you wouldn't have had to wait until it was a dire emergency. People do that all the time then complain when they can't be seen the second they decide.

Dentistry is currently in a dire, dire situation and there are very few NHS dentists and services around.

However - you can still get them and you've been given the option to call at 8am tomorrow to get one that is just half an hour away. If you'd had called a few days ago when it started, you'd have been seen by now.

Yes, we should be able to get emergency appointments same day, but we can't so you just have to pre-plan where you can. If pain begins and you're aware of what's in that area, call 111 before it gets worse.

I've got an emergency appointment this afternoon with my private dentist.

I've had to wait 10 days even for this. They are excellent but just don't have capacity.

Other posters are right. NHS dentistry is shocking. The type of pain and complications that people are just left to get on with us just awful.

If you’ve had 2 children on the NHS you’ve definitely taken out more than you’ve paid in and how do you expect to get a same day NHS appt when it doesn’t appear that you are registered with an NHS dentist . WRT the emergency appts , they will in our area only do an interim fix until you can get seen by your own dentist .

I am sorry you and the majority of the country are in this position.

To put it into context per patient treated including patient payment contributions , the NHS pays for dental treatment around £36 a year. That would buy very little dental treatment in the real world and is the reason why more and more dentists are giving up their NHS dental contracts or just closing down (like 85 bupa practices recently).

All you can do is phone practices each day to see if they have any cancellations and accept it may mean travelling and may not be at a convenient time or day. Good luck.

My DC and I recently had dental check-ups. When I went to book our next appointments for 12 months' time, I was told that there was nothing available and to phone up in December/January to see if any appointments have become free (for next August!!!)

It's crazy. The receptionist said that it's because the dentists at the practice are all doing loads of private work, meaning that there aren't any appointments for NHS patients. One dentist's NHS list is 18 months long for a check ups.

Surely everyone knows you don't call your 'local dentist' and get a same day appointment. That's not how dentists work. You need to be on the list of a particular dentist, being local often has little to do with it. The NHS lists tend to be full up with people who see them regularly, not randoms calling up on the day for urgent treatment - although it's only urgent because you've left it until now, it's not an emergency that's just happened. You could have sorted it sooner via either private or NHS methods rather than waiting and now making it someone else's problem to squeeze you into an over-subscribed system. Tooth pain sucks though so I sympathise with that, and £300 isn't too bad for a biggish job like that. I hate paying the private fees too but try to think of it more like hairdressers than doctors. Most people find the money to pay for that and it's much less important overall.

I only referred to the last five years… where the payments are taken but I’ve struggled to get any appointment. Prior to the last five years, it wasn’t a struggle to get a gp appointment at all. And as I mentioned. My circumstances have changed over the last 6-12 months and where previously, I could afford private. I now can’t without trying to save up for a few months.

NHS dentist here - even if you had got an appointment today, there is close to zero chance that you would have had it extracted today (even if that was the most appropriate option). Usually urgent NHS appointments are 15 mins long but extraction of an impacted or partially erupted wisdom tooth would take at least 40 minutes. I would usually refer these to a specialist because of risk of breakage or damage to the underlying nerve. If there is no major swelling or signs of sepsis, the correct treatment would be to keep the area as clean as possible, rinse with HSMW or corsodyl (depending on your medical history) and painkillers as per instructions on packet. If there is an open cavity on the tooth this could be dressed but this isn’t usually done as would take about 30 mins and the tooth will be extracted soon anyway. Antibiotics are rarely appropriate to be prescribed unless there is a major swelling that cannot be discharged or risk of sepsis, due to increase in antibiotic resistance. The other reason an extraction is not usually done at an urgent appointment on the NHS is that for the urgent examination, X-ray, local anaesthetic placement, extraction, aftercare instructions and sometimes follow up phone call or appointment I would be paid £12, which I’m sure everyone will agree is ridiculous. Complaining on Mumsnet is not helpful - call your MP, get them to change the NHS system that has left us undervalued and underfunded and stop encouraging no win no fee lawyers to sue us when you break a tooth eating a Kit Kat chunky because we can’t reverse time and make it exactly as it was before

The pain started Friday night. We had the weekend, and the bank holiday where the pain was tolerable and manageable with painkillers. And I didn’t expect to be able to get an appointment over a bank holiday weekend. Then yesterday, the pain was still there but worsening, but between kids/work, there wasn’t an opportunity to call until later int. the afternoon when there were no appointments. The pain worsened last night. Then I tried again this morning… I’ve been cycling ibuprofen; paracetemol…to manage the pain in the interim.

i have two kids. One born abroad. So nothing to do with the NHS during pregnancy, child birth or maternity.

The other born here but after I had already worked and paid into the system some years.

Dentist fill their diary they don’t want space any empty spaces equals a loss of income
you said it has been a problem for a long time
you should have booked an appointment before it got to that stage

such common sense!!

I didn’t realise NHS dentists were paid so low! I now understand the scarcity. That’s under 50% of my salary and I don’t have any special qualifications. What a warped world!

however if there are potential complications, that could from a wisdom teeth not being extracted, surely the medical and potential aftercare needed would cost the NHS more in the long run? I don’t understand the system that seems to be set up to be more costly then it should be?

Literally not a single NHS dentist taking new patients in my town or within a 2 hour drive. Got lucky and one of the local practices hired a new dentist who was taking on new patients so managed to get us all in (kids as well) as private patients after only about 6 months of moving to area. But we were on the waiting list for pretty much every dentist nearby. Lots of people I know have no dentist because they can’t afford private and there is no NHS provision.

It’s shocking. And it doesn’t sound like this problem is unique to this area at all, lots of the UK is the same!

Im not even sure I could get a same day appointment at my dentist as a private patient. I think they’d try, but they seem very busy. Absolutely no chance if I just rang a random dentist.

I am having a wisdom tooth removed but have to wait until October for it. Luckily we still have a NHS dentist but make sure to never miss an appointment. Given your job are you sure you can't find the money to try to get it done privately as you don't have a hope of getting it done by the NHS dentist. Funny how NHS wasn't good enough when you could afford it isn't it?

Agreed. Husband is a dentist and even I had to wait 3 weeks at his practice for an appointment for a non-urgent wisdom tooth extraction. No dentist in the world is going to take walk-ins (least of all on the same day) for a complex wisdom tooth extraction. The resources in a clinic are so tightly planned that you need a free chair and assistants for at least an hour. Special xrays need to be done beforehand to check the positioning of the nerves and then analysed by the dentist. This usually requires an extra appointment in itself.

Lower wisdom teeth removal are actually one of the most dangerous and risky dental procedures there is. It's technically a form of major surgery and requires appropriate planning and preparation (disinfection, prophylactic antibiotics, making sure you have someone to take you home etc). It also has the lowest return on investment because even a private wisdom tooth removal pays 10x less than an implant or a safer procedure of comparable length. So from a business and liability perspective, lower jaw wisdom teeth removals are the least favourite things for most dentists. Hence why you are likely to be referred to a hospital, oral surgeon or fobbed off with antibiotics/painkillers.

From a patients perspective, it's best to get them removed at the first indication of potential future problems (mild decay, impaction) and take whichever appointment you can get, wherever you get it. A hospital or specialist is always better because they have more experience, regardless how far away it is from where you live. Once there's pain it becomes a hassle because sometimes the injection may not work on inflamed tissue and you have bigger problems.

Yes it's appalling. We had NHS dentists in various places we lived in Scotland, then moved to Cumbria where there was apparently NOT ONE dentist taking NHS patients in the entire county. After ringing around for days I got us on a waiting list at the only one who has such a list, about 30 miles away. After a few months we were able to register, and have had same day emergency appointment with them. We were amazed to find they existed as it seems 99% of dentists have gone private. No shortage of them! It does need addressing really, in Scotland the health centres had the dental practice in the same building, which really makes sense.

Well for starters your NI contributions don't just go towards the NHS. I presume you’ll be expecting a State pension when you're older? Currently it’s £204 a week, over £10k a year. If you live for 20 years after retirement, thats £200k you’ll get back in pension.
Also, if you turn up at an emergency dentist, they won’t remove a wisdom tooth. You’ll likely need a referral to the Dental hospital for that. You need some strong pain killers.

I’ve not been able to find an NHS dentist within an hour of my address for 5 years and counting - I’d be grateful you had one at all.
I have to pay for everything (even check ups) privately.

I can’t say I have much sympathy that you have to travel 30 minutes combined with the horror of having to phone a number at 8am to get it for free, sorry!

I have close friends in Europe, who trusted their dentists. I found someone with a very good reputation among the locals who still had a waiting list but not as long as the NHS. He was great, I had to pay as a private client and for the flights but it was still worth it, having said that… it was one of those nasty ingrown wisdom teeth that a regular dentist wouldn’t be able to remove but if it is a simpler scenario just go private and jump the queu

Is that statistic correct? You say that one in 5 people do not have an nhs dentist, I thought it would be the other way round, that only one in five people have access to an nhs dentist. (And I’d be surprised if 1 in 5 had an nhs dentist, I thought it would be less). There are 4 dental practices in our town, only one has nhs patients now. Out of my friendship group of 6 families, we are the only family to still have nhs dentists. One family has it only for the children (in another town) and the others have all been forced to go private (including for the children) when there dentists have stopped doing nhs treatment.

We moved to a rural county 12 years ago tried to register with an nhs dentist and had no luck . Registered with nhs shortlist ( from memory which is a bit hazy ) to after another 6 months of waiting was given a dentist to contact which was in the next county and probably around an 80 mile round trip.
We finally found a local ( 40 mile round trip ) and whilst not NHS is a sort of 50/50 which I don't really understand but as the practice is brilliant quite happy to pay .

YANBU. I have a (dreadful) NHS dentist but she couldn't see me with a painful filling until October so I paid privately at the same practice to go today. 10 min appointment and a prescription was £155.