...to think teachers DO get paid over the holidays?

[MasterBeth]

It doesn't make sense to me.

Some people say teachers don't get paid over the holidays. They are paid, they say, for 40 weeks, but their money is aggregated over 52 weeks and paid monthly.

What does that even mean? How is it (practically) any different to being paid (less per week) for 52 weeks?

Except, of course, that interpretation would also mean that teachers get no holidays, so could validly complain, instead, that they are expected to work 365 days per year. 😂😂😂

Don’t go into teaching - you get no holidays! 😱😂

I'm confused why you think primary school teaching means there is limited marking?
As office staff do you really have a good grasp of what marking, assessment and moderation takes place across reception, key stage 1 and key stage 2?

I'm surprised that all teaching staff are leaving by 4pm each day and doing no work in holidays, weekends or after school. How do you know what they do when at home?

Do they not have any additional after school, before school or lunchtime meetings each week? No after school or lunchtime clubs?

The INSET time is 5 x 6 hours = 30 hours.
This doesn't need to be taken as a whole day, though sometimes whole or half days work well when external speakers are in.

This year we have two full days at the start of term = 12 hours (obviously we are there longer, that's just the directed time, so,doesn't include lunch/break times)

We then have 18 hours to do. We do these as 6 separate twilights - 3 hours after school, spread across the school year. Some of these will be internal training/cpd and some will be from external agencies and trainers.

On top of this we have an hours meeting each week. That's not counted in inset time.

I think @Pineapples198 is on the wind up. Primary teachers teach 4 or 5 subjects per day. If you have 30 kids in your class that is a lot of marking. Obviously some subjects don't require marking but will need time for organising equipment and materials. Also, our office staff only work from 8-4 so aren't there to see what time many teachers come in or leave.

I don't understand why people make up this nonsense on the internet. Anybody who has ever worked in a school knows what utter BS it is so why lie? What purpose does this serve?

From my teaching experience, they MUST on the wind up!

🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣do you actually
have any idea of what teachers do ?

I would love to know what the teachers in this school would make of your post.

Sorry, @UsernameAlreadyTaken101 I didn’t mean your school, I meant the OP’s!

But the 1265 hours doesn't include planning and marking. That not 'directed' time, because you can do it when you like.

Much of this topic was covered in the threads about teachers striking. To quote some points raised then:

[In England and Wales] Teachers ARE paid for holidays - by law.

Full time teachers are at school (directed time) 195 days per year. Adding on the standard 28 days holiday entitlement (required by law) that makes 223 days, but they are paid for 365 days.

A teacher on £38,810 is not paid £199.03/day for 195 days. They are not paid £174.04/day for 223 days. They are paid £106.33/day for 365 days.

This was made crystal clear during the recent strikes. A teacher did not lose 1/195 or 1/223 of their salary for a day on strike, they lost 1/365 of their salary for each strike day - £106.33 in the example above. This rule comes from a long running case that was finally settled in the Supreme Court (Hartley v King Edward VI College - 24/05/2017). All the teaching unions know this and you can find it in their literature and on their websites.

To discharge their directed hours, teachers carry out work in non-directed time. Their contract specifies this - but the amount of time to do this, the location where they do this, or when they do it, is not specified. Teachers should use their professional judgement on when, how long etc.

I agree with this, teachers wages are comparable to roles which require qualifications - nurses, social workers, etc. Those professions have loosely similar salary with 4-5 weeks of paid leave a year, depending on experience. Teachers ‘package’ is dressed up as 38 working weeks and 14 weeks holiday a year (5 weeks of that paid) so, realistically it’s irrelevant whether it’s paid holiday or not, as teachers are still paid the equivalent of similar roles (who also do lots of unpaid overtime). Whether they would rather have a higher hourly rate but less contracted hours, or a lower hourly rate but more contracted hours, it works out the same.

Teachers ‘package’ is dressed up as 38 working weeks and 14 weeks holiday a year

If you are going to try and make a point at least get the numbers correct.

Yep, that’s the clearest explanation I’ve seen on here and spot on.

There’s a lot of misunderstanding about the difference between contracted working hours and directed working hours. The judgement in the Hartley case was clear that they are not the same thing.

It would be to our detriment if holidays were really unpaid (like in Scotland where they are only paid for their statutory annual leave entitlement) because unpaid leave would be deducted at a higher rate.

Except teachers’ salary is not dressed up as 38 paid working weeks, 5 paid weeks holiday and 9 unpaid weeks, it is dressed up as 38 paid working weeks and 14 weeks paid holiday. That is how the public perceive it. Teachers can’t even effectively argue against it, because it sounds ludicrous to say they have no contractual right to a holiday, to the extent that legislation has to step in and give them the bare minimum, as their contracts are silent on the matter. However, whether or not you are entitled to a paid holiday, and how much paid holiday you are entitled to, is not just semantics, it has legal consequences. The consequences might not be of much concern to you most of the time, but you will certainly develop an interest in them when they affect you.

The reality is, teachers have a lot of time to get their work done in their own way and in their own time, and 1,265 hours a year when they have to do their work in the way the headteacher tells them to. Nobody except the teacher themselves knows when the teacher is actually on holiday.

(Or whatever the actual directed hours, working weeks ad holidays are…)

The reality is, teachers have a lot of time to get their work done in their own way and in their own time, and 1,265 hours a year when they have to do their work in the way the headteacher tells them to. Nobody except the teacher themselves knows when the teacher is actually on holiday.

This right here is exactly why the Supreme Court found in favour of the teachers in the Hartley case and established that teachers are paid for holidays (and weekends) and ruled that schools could only deduct salary at 1/365 for a missed day of work. Teacher contracts specify work that has to be done outside of directed days and hours and therefore our salary is not just for our directed days plus statutory leave. We are paid for every day of the year and then decide for ourselves when and where we work outside of directed hours.

@jcyclops that judgement is nothing to do with annual leave / holiday pay of teachers in schools. It was about sixth form teachers who the red book applies to and deductions when on strike. The legal fact remains that teachers who take a full 12 months of maternity accrue only 28 days holiday entitlement (the legal statutory minimum). If the judgement you referred to was applied to annual leave then teachers on maternity and long term sickness would accrue a lot more holiday entitlement and this simply doesn’t happen.

I work in admin / HR in a primary school. Our teachers do get paid over the holidays. Their contracts are 27.5 hours per week all year round (52 weeks per year). The teachers work more hours during the term than 27.5, effectively making up the hours for the rest of the year so that they can have all holidays off

😂😅if you are HR at a school you know this is NOT the case.

Why do you even care? Why does it matter to you? We get paid for the time in school and it’s split over the year, but we do not get paid holidays. Simples. Yet another trash/bash a teacher post on here.

Also if you work out directed time as 1265/32.5 that’s quite a wedge of weeks worked which account for the ‘long holidays’ plus an extra two hours min. each day. In a lot of secondary directed time is timetabled meaning all marking is done outside of this time. Doesn’t take much to then account for the holidays and you end up with the same as any other profession, except we get called names constantly and slagged off every day in the media. If some of the teacher trolls on here are so envious of the holidays, become one. There is a shortage.

If teachers got paid holiday they'd accumulate annual leave during maternity leave so would be able to extend their leave. They can't.

The other days aren’t paid annual leave. They are days when teachers may or may not be working to fulfil the “any other hours” part of their contract. They aren’t annual leave but they are paid. The press summary explains it quite well. https://www.supremecourt.uk/cases/docs/uksc-2015-0142-press-summary.pdf

The key bit is that teacher salaries “accrue at an equal daily rate” for all 365 days of the year. Our pay is not divisible into term time and non term time and annual leave because our contracts include a lot of tasks that are completed outside of directed time and there “is no suggestion that some of these are paid and some are unpaid”.

The scary thing about this is that it could be true in an academy. Not an academy I would want to work for though, since it would mean they had abandoned standard teacher pay and conditions.